Friday, June 21, 2013

Holding Corpmates Accountable

They say charity begins at home. That's certainly the case in EVE, where players are allowed to shoot their fellow corp members in highsec without Concord interference. It's a great tool for holding others accountable to the Code. You have a conscience for a reason. If you see anyone in your corp doing something that makes you feel uncomfortable--mining without a license, showing insufficient loyalty to the New Order, etc.--you are well within your rights to destroy him or her.

Agent Haedonism Bot is a model of corporate responsibility. As he wrote on his blog, he has created a safe space for Code-compliant miners. But if a miner joins the corp hoping to get away with murder, they've got another thing coming:
"Our ongoing efforts to reform our corporation, to transform it from a bloodthirsty pirate gang to a humble highsec mining corporation, have continued despite many unforeseen challenges. As of the time of this post, we still do not have any members who actually mine. We have recruited a number of miners, but to my shock and dismay, not one of them has turned out to operate according to the New Halaima Code of Conduct."
Sadly, Haedonism has been forced to kill new recruits to his own corporation. Case in point, ANZQ, who had only just joined the corp:

"This miscreant was supposed to be the shining hope of our alliance to expand into the Australian timezone. He is a well experienced and highly skilled miner/industrialist who flies exhumers, Orcas, and freighters, and had an extensive collection of BPOs in his possession. Fortunately, our corporate police officer, none other than my alt Kalim Dabo, caught wind of his intentions to mine without a permit in our home system, and was able to intercept him en route and confiscate/destroy his mining equipment and illicit BPO library, as well as, apparently, all of the rest of his possessions."
Haedonism performs what is called the "reverse awox". But you don't need to run a corporation to serve justice on your fellow members. Everyone in EVE has the authority to act in the name of the Code against their corpmates, even if your application was accepted five minutes ago.

Agent Lord Mandelor notified me of a victory against Cutie Mark Crusaders Militant Coalition, which had been infiltrated by a courageous Agent of the Order.

Does Cutie Mark Crusaders Militant Coalition (ticker "PONEH") sounds familiar? It's the home of bronies who rebel against the Code.

In a reply to a MinerBumping post about our Agents' activities in Ikao, one such brony threatened to petition any future awoxings.

Now it seems other members of the corp, including Botten Miromme, are angry at the New Order. They miss their Orca.

But you'll recall that the controversy began with brony2893, who was caught faking ownership of a mining license.

Recently someone took action against the brony corp, and brony2893 himself sent me an EVEmail expressing his displeasure. As soon as he told me that he was being sarcastic about honour, I knew I was dealing with one rude dude.

Although I'm not sure exactly what he meant by that line, it was clear that brony2893 was in the process of self-transformation:

Gone was the badge of "reluctant support" for me in his bio. Now he styled himself a take-no-prisoners leader in the rebellion against the New Order.

brony2893 was convinced that the entire New Order was out to get him--all because he "verbally skinned [my] butt".

(Though I have not yet interacted with brony2893, the above is a screencap of the verbal skinning he seems to have been referring to.)

...and the EVEmail continued for several more paragraphs. I have to disagree with him on the definition of a "true man". It's open to philosophic debate, but I don't think being a true man entails mining in highsec and threatening to petition when your corp's Orca gets blown up.

Once more, brony2893 insisted that he alone is the target of all New Order operations. He also referred to "harassment outside of EVE". In truth, no Agent of the Order has ever harassed anyone outside of EVE--or inside of it, for that matter.

Through the course of running this blog, I've found that the surest way to make carebears complain of being misquoted or "falsified" is by quoting them verbatim.

In his parting words, brony2893 invited me (and by extension, everyone else in the New Order) to visit the Ikao system, where the brony corp is located.

Despite his paranoia, I can understand why he might fear for the safety of Cutie Mark Crusaders Militant Coalition. They're a corp of 21 highsec carebears, all bronies, and their lax recruitment standards leave them vulnerable to awoxers and wardeccers alike. Still, I can't help but feel that their problems would be solved if they embraced the Code willingly. If they do not, perhaps their future will not be so bright.


  1. "This just goes to show how incredibly butthurt you get when things don't go your way..."

    Somehow, I don't think the Supreme Protector is the one who is butthurt here.

    1. But his argument is getting stale and old. Nothing really new in terms of what he is trying to achieve.

    2. There's no need for something new to achieve if the first goal is still far from being achieved.

      Also, a valid argument never gets stale or old. Try telling that to Socrates!

  2. "Let us cavort like the Greeks of old! You know the ones I mean."
    - Hedonism Bot

  3. Bronies... Ughhh... A bunch of repressed pedos expressing it through the love of a children's TV show. I'mma make it rain antimatter.

    1. Your opinion is like my pizza: I asked for pizza.

    2. Please? I want to jizz on the pepperoni.

  4. I despised carebears in the past, but now...I don't know. I;m starting to understand why the Saviour is doing what hhe does. Disgust is turning in...mercy.

    Those carebears live in their make-believe litle world. In that world they feel like they're true men, who verbally kick asses and bow to no one. They can't see what they really are, they live an hollow life made of wishful thoughts and empty convictions.

    It's our duty to bring them out from their delusions. We ought to save them. They may kick and scream, but in the end they want to be saved. It may require a little pixel violence, but it's in their interest. Ganking, awoxing or bumping: it's the merciful thing to do.

    One day they will get it, Father of the New Order and Saviour of High Sec. Even if your shoulder bear an enormous, emergent burden, you rarely get a simple "thank you" from the carebears. But an hero doesn't sacrifice himself for self-satisfaction: he does it for his people.

    1. We're a search-and-rescue team sent to Plato's Cave.

    2.'s hard to detach from those shadows but in the end it's worth it.

  5. I read the QQ, and I thought "this guy is deluded, and his eyes are so clouded that he cannot see the light of our saviour, but if you ignore his butt-hurt, he's got a little spunk. He's like a man with no legs trying to stand up for himself, good intentions, but doomed to failure". There was the merest spark of respect in me for him.
    Then I read his corp bio.
    Fuck James, I've asked you politely before, CAN YOU PLEASE POST WARNINGS BEFORE SHIT LIKE THAT?????????
    and I thought furries were creepy.......
    That corp bio makes me want to re-evaluate my opinion of Hitler, maybe he was onto something, if it resulted in purging the human race of people like this.

    1. The self-a-grandizing tone in his message makes me believe that he still has rubber sheets on his bed. And that his mommy didn't love him.

    2. What race would this be racist against?

      Doesn't the assumption that he means a certain race when saying "people like this" make you racist?

  6. "...or inside of it, for that matter."

    Well, the definition from one person to the next of what can be considered harassment can be considered 'black on white or white on black'. The code and it's enforcers are getting stale and monotonous in their saying and doings. And their so called enforcement is as lame as those that mine 23/7. Too much rinse and repeat from either party.

    1. His goal is a compliant high sec. Enforcing it is not a matter of originality, but persistence. The netertainment is a side dish, the main plate is enforcing the Code to make high sec more worthy of what EVE as a game tries to be.

      Would you say that police is lame because their work is repetitive? It's what they have to do to achieve their goal.

    2. Dear John E Normus (the fake one),

      You are terrible at being "John E Normus." The real John E Normus isn't capable of putting together a coherent post without :effort: and some good old fashioned Fawn Tailor proof-reading. Also, I have a James 315 "shrine" or "hair-doll" on or near my person at all times. I'm a bit of a fanatic actually. He saved me from the carebear lifestyle.

      These things are known.

      Stay classy,
      John E Normus (the real one)

  7. How much does the Marmite Collective charge to trash a corporation like that? The Marmites' home system is right next door to Ikao, after all; I'd love to see what a professional mercenary corp could do to a pony corp.

  8. "Have your fleet of tissue-paper ships shoot me on sight"


  9. The financial skills of the unicorn mare Sweetie Belle?

  10. Why can't these people realize that Eve is not for them.

    I realized that 5 months ago.

    Now I am patiently waiting for what is looking to be a phenomenal space game, Star Citizen, where I can filter my interaction with other players.

    I hope these players suffering under the dictatorship of the New Order realize that as well one day.

    1. > Why can't these people realize that Eve is not for them.

      Because, as with a lot of arguments people have, they want the game/situation to bow to their demands, not for themselves to adapt to how the game/situation is.

    2. Anonymous wrote "Now I am patiently waiting for what is looking to be a phenomenal space game, Star Citizen, where I can filter my interaction with other players."

      So you're waiting for another multiplayer game to play where you don't have to play with people? Isn't requiring an online element superfluous if you don't want external influence?

      There are many good sci-fi space based single player games and you don't even need to pay for an internet connection to play them either.

  11. The Charon kill rather bugs me.

    From the blog post: "caught wind of his intentions to mine without a permit in our home system"

    Unless that's badly phrased, his INTENTIONS to mine were apparently sufficient to blow up his non-mining ship. Even if he said "I will mine without a permit", surely he isn't guilty until he is actually caught doing so?

    If you wanna gank, reverse awox, safari etc etc. then go for it, that's Eve for you. But don't continually hide behind the code as justification for bastard-ganks.

    Having said that, dude should really have checked out his future corp mates before zipping his expensive Charon around.

    1. Intentions matter.. For example, the intention to commit murder. In this case, the intention to violate the Code.

    2. Officer of the WatchJune 22, 2013 at 11:21 AM

      Agreed. As I said earlier, only an idiot in this day and age on EVE doesn't require his corpmates to make a API key to make sure they don;t have hostile alts and as such, clearly be intending to sabotage corporation operations.

      If they don't do that AND fly a ship worth up to 1 billion isk (at my last price check) then they deserve EVERYTHING they get.

  12. As I told the victim, the presence of several exhumers and many minerals in his cargo constituted pretty damning evidence against him. Clearly he had already done some mining without a permit.

    Also, one glance at our corp killboard, a few seconds with google, or a casual glance at his CEOs bio all would have been sufficient to tell him what his new corp was all about.

  13. Officer of the WatchJune 22, 2013 at 11:14 AM

    Not to rain on your parade, but the CMC militant coalition may have grounds if one of you is singling out ther corp for grief.

    I took the opportunity to read CCP's view on bumping...well done on getting it confirmed as a legitimate practice btw...but my eyes were drawn to another section of the statement that Haedonism may want to take on board which I will now post here along with a link to confirm authenticity:

    'However, persistent targeting of a player with bumping by following them around after they have made an effort to move on to another location can be classified as harassment, and this will be judged on a case by case basis.'

    Yes, I know that comment refers to bumping specifically...but persistant targetting harssment outside a wardec could easily be applied to what you're doing...with CCP taking the relevant action against your account.

    On one final set of notes, Please do not mistake me for some suck up idiotic bot-aspirant miner. That corp should be more careful with recruitment (eg: they should require API code's to make sure spy alts cannot get in...or get access to corporation assets) however...I honestly cannot see how it can be considered 'skillful' PVP to destroy a unarmed vessel that cannot fight back. Proper skill lies in taking on a ship in your own weight class...the doubt that you maybe didn't fit your tank strong enough to survive until you pierced your opponents...the thrill in getting that first kill solo without your corp backing you up and the pride in seeing that kill displayed on the global killboards...THAT is PVP.

    My alts been around long enough to know what a proper PVP battle looks like...he's been in quite a few.

    1. I've blown ships of all sorts up in hisec, lowsec, and nullsec. I've never been in a fight that someone somewhere wouldn't say, "That's not REAL PvP..." Luckily, being an awesome introvert, I don't give a monkey's behind what other people think. Eve is a PvP game all the time. If I blow your ship up, it was PvP. Your e-honor has no validity outside of yourself.

    2. Officer of the WatchJune 22, 2013 at 4:21 PM

      No need for insults, be honest, I also don't give a toss who gets blown up...I just prefer a challenge. It gets boring shooting at a defenseless target.

    3. It's not defenseless at all, there's Concord.

      Anyway, EVE is not about duels between gentleman, it's something more. It's about an ecosystem where the strongest prevail. A lion is not going to question his prey's ability before attacking, because theyr fight for survival is part of the ecosystem.

      You can play EVE as a "gentleman" if you want, but the game is not built for that, in my opinion you'd play it wrong.

      A part for that, I think a real gentleman will always try to gank a miner, because for the good of EVE players unable to defend themselves deserve to lose their ship.

    4. "...another section of the statement that Haedonism may want to take on board..."

      If you think that I have persistently following around specific individuals and targeting them after they have made an effort to get away then you must have misunderstood something that you heard about me. I'm aware of that rule and more or less agree with it. The specifics of where exactly you need to draw the line with that are a bit fuzzy, the more so because of tools like locator agents that CCP has given us specifically for the purpose of hunting down individuals.

      My own personal standard is that to attack an individual once is fine under any circumstances. Attacking them twice is fine as well. Three times and more is dependent on the victim's actions. If they continue to engage in smacktalk or other forms of provocation then they are fair game. If they run off and hide on the other end of space and don't reply to any attempt to contact them then I leave them alone. I wouldn't engage in any activity that I would consider harassment. Other people have their own standards, though, and many people who find themselves becoming my targets do feel that they have been harassed, which for some reason never ceases to amuse me.

      As to your point about "skilled PvP", firstly I will say that I also enjoy fights where the other guy shoots back, and particularly love solo battles against superior numbers. Those sorts of fights do indeed take some skill to come out ahead. I think a lot of people underestimate the skills that it takes to get kills like that Charon, though, or even to suicide gank.

      In order to kill that guy I had to spend several hours lying through my teeth, to convince him that we were a legitimate industrial corp which he should join, and that it would be a great idea to load up his freighter with all his belongings and move to my location. I also had to sort through dozens of other potential targets, killing some lessor value ones and having others slip through my fingers because I couldn't manage to execute before they Googled me or something. This is a different set of skills than small gang or solo PvP, but definitely no less challenging. Even ganking requires skill and patience to scout targets, set up and execute without any mistakes. The difference between what we do and your version of "skilled PvP" is that we have to do the work before we push F1, not after.

    5. "However, persistent targeting of a player with bumping by following them around after they have made an effort to move on to another location."

      I am pleased to inform you that the bronies are still in Ikao, and have always been in Ikao, and have in fact invited the rest of the Order to visit them it seems.
      Despite what they may have you believe, they are not the ONLY people in Ikao having ships removed for Code Violation, they are simply the ones making the most noise about it.

    6. Then please do come to Ikao. And have your big boy hats on. The code is getting annoying, scratch, is annoying. You're doing nothing but being an irritating itch.

    7. Officer of the WatchJune 22, 2013 at 7:16 PM

      Hat off to you then, Haedonism. That kind of planning and lying takes skill to pull off in a game like EVE where Paranoia is a survival trait.

      I apologize if I insulted you. I'll admit, I've never looked into ganking as I on;t have the isk to handle such a problem and my side-profession of providing POS fuel to other corps would suffer if I developed such a habit (though I am planning to take advantage of dual training at some point so I can train an alt and get my feet wet in the ganking arena).

      However, as I said in my first post, I'm not anti-order and respect what you do trying to educate players that going AFK is the fast track to being podded in due order.

      Best of lukc to you in enlightening those poor AFK miners (preferably with thermal missiles)

      Lord Mandelor, I actually facepalmed when I saw that comment. They're not just poking the bear, they're kicking it in the balls...and like all good bears, I look forward to a future blog saying how they got mauled by you guys.

      Best of luck to both of you in your New Order endeavors.

      -Officer of the Watch

      P.S: Learn to use paragraphs, Botten.

    8. Learn to use paragraphs...for? I'm not writing my thesis for college. o.O

    9. Officer of the WatchJune 22, 2013 at 7:27 PM

      Makes your writing more like a post and less like a rant from a troll.

    10. I suppose. -shrug- Oh well.

  14. Officer of the Watch I appreciate at least one of that group actually taking the time to read the policy on that topic. As for the rest of the new order freaks maybe you should take up example after him. I've told you many times what you do is harrassment, and I've also asked you kindly (because I'm a nice guy) to please leave us and other miners and the sort, alone. You continue to babble about "honor" and "the code" which both, from your mouth, are a crock. "Your e-honor has no validity outside of yourself." Spoken like a true new order tool. If you fellows have things to say to someone about how they operate, or what they decide to do, at least have the balls, otherwise known as testicular fortitude, to say it to their face. Your orginization is essentially a bunch of HS pirates, which in and of itself is not a problem, but do not go about spouting "saviors of HS," "Honor bound," or any of the other BS you tend to spout in local. You're following around a guy who thinks only of himself and griefing other players, new and old. I'll play the character in game as I expect you all to do as well, but there is a time where you should honestly, and forgive my language, fuck off. It's not only hindering to other player's experience, it's just down right annoying. No one cares about your order and bumping to be honest, they do care about how utterly rude and pompous you lot tend to be. Now onto ingame happenings. As for t he fellow who took on my Orca (an alt of course), you killed an orca -clap clap- that was undefended, on an account that was three weeks old. If you count that as soloing know nothing about pvp or the real pvp mechanics of EVE. Blow up an orca that's A)Not in your corp, B)Defended by another player/corp C)and the person has actually been around a while, then maybe you'll have been in real pvp situation. Secondly could you perhaps stop spouting nonsense about buying one does and if they do, they're probably new. I don't agree with bot mining, but as far as afk mining, sometimes people have to step away and do not have the time to dock up as you say. If you think what you're doing is worthwhile you may want to go actually invest your time in life, maybe with your wife or child, or friends at the park. Get out of the basement and leave people who are trying to enjoy the game alone. Please and thank you. o7

    Player minded player.
    Botten Miromme.

    1. It's not harrassment, otherwise you could petition the New Order and have them banned. Harrassment is not allowed in EVE. What they do is perfectly legit as CCP confirmed, so please get informed (and learn to use paragraphs)

    2. Inane rambling of this caliber should be sent to James 315 by evemail so that it can be featured in a blog post for a wider audience to cringe at.

    3. They can all read my "rant" here. o.o I'm one to speak about what I want, how I want. It does not require that I put it in paragraph format. You've all obviously read it. o.O And to call it a rant...have you not read the nonsense posted by your James?

    4. Do excuse me. I meant "rambling," apologies.

    5. Do you enjoy reading wall of texts? Writing without paragraphs is a sign of not being very good at expressing your opinion by writing, but if it makes you happy...

      Also If someone is kind enough to read your text even if It's in a bad, eye straining format is not an excuse to keep doing it.

      Anyway I hope by now you understood that harrassment is against the rules of EVE and thus the New Order is not doing it, so your next opinion about what they do will be an informed one.

    6. harassment (either harris-meant or huh-rass-meant) n. the act of systematic and/or continued unwanted and annoying actions of one party or a group, including threats and demands. The purposes may vary, including racial prejudice, personal malice, an attempt to force someone to quit a job or grant sexual favors, apply illegal pressure to collect a bill, or merely gain sadistic pleasure from making someone fearful or anxious. Such activities may be the basis for a lawsuit if due to discrimination based on race or sex, a violation on the statutory limitations on collection agencies, involve revenge by an ex-spouse, or be shown to be a form of blackmail ("I'll stop bothering you, if you'll go to bed with me"). The victim may file a petition for a "stay away" (restraining) order, intended to prevent contact by the offensive party. A systematic pattern of harassment by an employee against another worker may subject the employer to a lawsuit for failure to protect the worker. Yes, what they do is, in fact, harrassment.

    7. "You've all obviously read it."

      I haven't read it - I spent my time on more constructive things, like reading Hedonism Bot's comment.

    8. harass (ˈhærəs, həˈræs)

      — vb
      ( tr ) to trouble, torment, or confuse by continual persistent attacks, questions, etc

      Just in case.

    9. So is the Police an harrassing organization?

      Also the dictionary is no use here, harrassing in the context of EVE Online has a very specific meanning covered in the EULA, so please don't misuse it. The New Order is "harrassing" the same way a corporation who declares war to another one is "harrassing".

    10. So is the Police an "harrassing" organization?

      The dictionary is no use here, harassing in the context of EVE Online defines petitionable actions against the rules of the game, so don't misuse it.

      But even by the dictionary definition, the New Order is not harassing, the same way a government who holds sovereignity is not harassing if he sends the police to you when you break its rules. In the context of EVE, the New Order is "harassing" the same way corporations who destroy unknown ships in their space are "harassing". By your definition even if you declare war to another corp you're "harassing".

    11. The Police is an federal tool used to maintain order, and ensure laws are abided by. Their acts themselves are not harrassing. (Although they do sometimes harass, but that is an individual case, not a reflection of what the orginization is meant to be used for)

      I'll agree that it is not persay harassment under CCPs EULA, so yes, by game rules/mechanics it's not.

      Now, by dictionary definition,where did it say anything about sovereignty? And in that case, new order freaks do not hold sovereignty of any part of highsec, nor does any one group or groups. Why? Because CCP set it up so no one could claim soverignty in Highsec. If I'm not mistaken is that not what James is telling you all? Is that not what he proclaims on a daily basis? "Highsec is mine blah blah." And with that you "knights" ,as you claim to be, no matter how much of a disgrace to the word as you are, are not police in any way. Corporations that destroy ships in THEIR space are doing so to ensure that it remains their space, claimable space.

      So yes, by CCP game standards it's not harassment persay, but that is determined by situation is it not? By definition, it is in fact harassment. Is your group so filled with asshats that you can't leave people who are actually there to mine for profit and fun, that you can't just leave them alone? As of now it seems that way, a group of HS pirates/trolls, nothing more. (No personal offence is meant, directed at orginization as a whole.)

    12. We do not harass miners.

      Any miner that gets a permit and obeys the Code is allowed to mine. Any player that gives up AFK play or mining, regardless of permit status, is left alone.

      Since there are circumstances under which we let players off, and that out violence is strictly goal directed,you cannot prove harassment.

      Accusing us of harassment is like accusing a null-sec alliance of it for shooting some idiot who persists in invading their sov. The invading idiot can end the pain at any time by not invading.

      A miner can end the pain at any time by giving up non-Code mining practices.

    13. Oh,and we are creating sovereignty in highsec, like it or not. This is what CCP calls "emergent game play".

      Highsec belongs to me!

    14. Botten, harassment would be something done just for provoking reactions or bad feelings in miners. This is not.

      Im this game you play against others. If you want to take your space you have to grab it from others and defend it. The New Order is trying to take soivereignity over High Sec. This is unprecedented, therefore many people are confused about it and see it as "harassment". This wrong view comes from the wrong assumption that in High Sec you should be invulnerable from hostile actions.

      You see, hostile actions are not only ganking. Would you say that ganking to steal cargos is harassment? No, it's stealing for profit. The same way corporations try to take space and hold their power over null systems, the New Order is trying to take control of High Sec by enforcing mining rules. This is not harassment, this is conquering and ruling.

      You may be against it, but this is definitely not harassment. It's conquering space and power in a game that's about conquering space and power. Like I said, by your definition everyone who excute hostile actions in EVE is "harassing".

      And James is showing that you CAN conquer sovereignity over High Sec (at least belts). That's the beauty of emergent gameplay, that's the beauty of EVE: going beyond what you usually perceive as the "limit". The only real limit is the EULA.

    15. No all hostile actions are not harrassment, and I'm not saying they are. But constantly saying 10m or you can't mine in a system you cannot conquer can be taken as such. Say what you will, you CANNOT conqure highsec, and your idea of being able to do it is not original, many have tried many have failed. James is no different aside from the fact that he is doing it out of selfish desires for himself. There's nothing stoping everyone from ganking him aside from the fact that A)Some would rather not lose ships seneslessly, and B)They're miners, not combat pilots, and possibly C)Ignore an itch and it will go away.

      Your group's style of gameplay is not emergent, it's a rehash of a failed idea by a larger group. A warped sense of "this is mine," when clearly it won't work.

      Of course I'm against it, we all pay in someway to play EVE and do what we like, no reason to pay a group of annoyance to continue to do that. Get me?

      You guys babble on about "saving Highsec," when all you're doing is annoying those who're playing the game. That is where it is considered Harassment. And that is where the main focus of people who do not agree with it comes into play.

      I'm down for finding new ways to play the game, but yours is not new. Nor is it benificial to any group...only one person benefits. You kill the miners who mine the rocks, who build the ships, who build the mods, who make the ammo...if anything you'd have better luck controlling the market rather than others play experience. But good luck on that one as well.

      If anything I'll make the stand for the people who say "go away new old order, we don't want nor need you." Much of us, miners and non, would rather play the game without having to deal with you lot. Go pester targets that shoot back is what I say. -Shrug- But that'll definately fall on deaf ears won't it?


    16. "Say what you will, you CANNOT conqure highsec"

      It's not a matter of saying it, it's a matter of "if we don't want you to mine here, you don't. And you don't! Conquered.

      "and your idea of being able to do it is not original, many have tried many have failed"

      Can you please point out the last time someone tried to hold sovereignity on hig sec?

      "There's nothing stoping everyone from ganking him aside from the fact that A)Some would rather not lose ships seneslessly, and B)They're miners, not combat pilots, and possibly C)Ignore an itch and it will go away."

      So, it looks like there are a lot of things to stop them from ganking him. I think the most important one is -effort-

      "Your group's style of gameplay is not emergent, it's a rehash of a failed idea by a larger group. A warped sense of "this is mine," when clearly it won't work."

      What larger group? By the way, do you know what emergent gameplay means? You sound confused.

      "Of course I'm against it, we all pay in someway to play EVE and do what we like, no reason to pay a group of annoyance to continue to do that. Get me?"

      Nope. You pay to access the game. The game is about conflict, ora "annoyance" as you call it. Without conflict there would be no game at all. And really 10 millions? If you don't pay you'll lose a lot more. The New Order controls your system! Welcome to the sandbox.

      "You guys babble on about "saving Highsec," when all you're doing is annoying those who're playing the game."

      Nope, they annoy those who DON'T play the game, like AFK miners. A lot of good miners are very happy for the presence of the New Order and even joined. You don't speak for every miner, just for the bad ones.

      "I'm down for finding new ways to play the game, but yours is not new."

      You insist on this "new" thing, but emergent gameplay has nothing to do with being something "new".

      "Nor is it benificial to any group...only one person benefits."

      It's beneficial to agents having fun. It's beneficial to the many new players who joined the game thanks to the publicity James 315 is making. It's beneficial for the good miners who now make more profit because the bad miners can't mine anymore. As you can see, it's beneficial to many.

      "You kill the miners who mine the rocks, who build the ships, who build the mods, who make the ammo..."

      We kill the miners who leech ISK in high sec and in return offer nothing to the game. They don't do any of those things. The ones who do are smart enough to understand that paying the fee and joining the Order is beneficial for their business. High Sec miners like to think their ore is needed for the game, but trust me, it's not. What they mine all day is just surplus ore that deflates prices, lowering the general profits for all miners.

      "If anything I'll make the stand for the people who say "go away new old order, we don't want nor need you." Much of us, miners and non, would rather play the game without having to deal with you lot. Go pester targets that shoot back is what I say. -Shrug- But that'll definately fall on deaf ears won't it?"

      Then this is the wrong game for you. Play something single player or learn that in this game you have to defend and deserve what you gain. If you can't, then you lose it. Good luck. Also, genuine advice: try working on your own ears, they need it.

  15. Also if you so disagree with what I say please feel free to contact me in game. o7

    1. I eagerly await your payment for a mining permit in game.

      at 10m ISK per year,it is a bargain.

  16. I love how these guys self righteously talk up griefing as emergent gameplay, and then justify it by claiming to enforce the way they think the game was meant to be played. But... I suppose every asshole (online or off) that ever harmed another person always had some way of justifying it to him or herself, no matter how deluded or hypocritical.

    I particularly love how this evolved from an attempt to weed out botters, to eliminating afk miners, to what's now just some kind of full blown protection racket. There's no virtue to this, and the economic argument wouldn't pass Econ 101. It's just a fig leaf for folks who want to grief. These guys might be organized, and fairly sophisticated, but let's call a spade a spade... they're no better than high level players who grief lowbies in WoW. Although I suppose in Eve it's less of a murder and more of a mugging and incidental manslaughter.

    1. Shhh! You'll pop their roleplaying balloon!

    2. "harmed another person"...for destroying internet ships in a game about destroying internet ships. Really?

      If you feel "harmed" when you lose something in a videogame because someone managed to kill you, you should realize you're taking it too seriously.


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