Friday, March 14, 2014

Lost Liberty, Part 4

Previously, on MinerBumping... Rebel leader liberty lost a decade of "work" when her alliance was looted and disbanded by a disgruntled director. liberty's arch-nemesis, Agent Bing Bangboom, gave liberty the chance to surrender to the New Order, but instead she vowed to fight on and take revenge.
Tylonal > liberty, do you need help paying for a permit?
liberty > mmmm nope i need refund this permits got bs all over it
Alaric Tannehill > if that helps you justify your tryanny go for it
liberty > hell im not botherd about ganks thats part the game gives our side something too shoot at but the permits can go take a running jump
Tylonal > Why, it's only 10 million?
Alaric Tannehill > why, its only a little posion
I often receive questions about the mining permit fee: Why is it necessary? Why is it only 10 million isk per year? Because it's a great litmus test for bot-aspirancy. Miners like Alaric Tannehill will refuse to pay it on "principle" because they're too greedy to give up a single isk in the name of emergent gameplay. They'll buy things from the market because they don't recognize that as human interaction.
Tylonal > and it helps stops the botters.
Tylonal > You're paying for a service, Could you imagine if the order wasn't here?
Tylonal > There would be nothing but hulks
liberty > my ass does it stop botters just makes u 10mil richer not stupid here ya numnut
Tylonal > Do you see any Hulks liberty?
Tylonal > I don't...
liberty > no as too many new order ganks around
Some rebels will swear to you that the New Order isn't making an impact. This goes back to the old denialist yarn about all Agents actually being my alts and the Miner Bingo quote that bumping won't do anything. Here we have liberty, an infamous rebel leader, admitting that the New Order has changed the ecology of highsec by chasing away the Hulks. So much for the rebel propaganda.
liberty > who would want too loose 2-300mil ship too ganks when can loose just a 30mil ret
Tylonal > They will lose the ret though. If they had a permit and simply active at the keyboard, it would be fine.
Alaric Tannehill > yeah next thing you will have to have a permit to you the head
liberty > mmmm we got a live one here i think not sure can count though maybe can do 1 if in the nude mmm 2-300mil hulk too 30mil ret if i got ganked ild love too loose a hulk of 2-300mil DUUUURRRRR!!!!!
liberty > 21**
Challenged by the rational, Order-supporting Tylonal, liberty suffered a meltdown in Kino local. Now it was time for her fellow rebels to come to the rescue:
Night Caper > commi bastard
Estelle Thomas > The Code lies
Night Caper > your Code is nothing but Nazi propaganda
Alaric Tannehill > Nazi 2.0
Tylonal > Night Caper, we gotta talk history sometime
Tylonal > First you call us commies, then you call us Nazis.
liberty > u know james 315 is brightest of u all u give him your isk and he will eventually run for it and change chrs screwing u all
Then came the next rebel propaganda line: The New Order is really a scam and eventually I'll run away with all of the money. That would be quite a trick, since I don't have 234 billion isk in my wallet. As of this post, I have around 20 billion. The rest has already reimbursed ganking ships. If the New Order were a scam, I could have saved myself a lot of trouble by taking the money a year and a half ago, when the first 20 billion worth of shares were purchased.
Invalid Hauler Thiesant > Procurer
Bing Bangboom > Kill: Athelas Solette (Procurer) Kill: Athelas Solette (Capsule) Procurer.
Alaric Tannehill > lol what the nazi were communist. what you thought they were freedom fighters
Night Caper > socialists and communits are both close in idiology and both stupid if you want to be free
liberty > hehe new order polocy its all for one mans riches
Night Caper > everyone equal but one
Alaric Tannehill > you mean the fuhrer
Rebels argued in local about whether Nazis and Communists were the same. It doesn't really matter, since the New Order gets compared to everything anyway. What comparison will they think of next?
Alaric Tannehill > You let one ant stand up to us... then they all might stand up. Those puny little ants outnumber us 100 to 1, and if they ever figure that out, there goes our way of life! It’s not about food; it’s about keeping those ants in line.
Alaric Tannehill > just remember you outnumber them
liberty > well come keep this ant in line then :)
liberty > thats what said too james 315
liberty > he even came down to ask little old us too surrendor didnt he bing lol
Bing Bangboom > He came to save you.
Bing Bangboom > You declined and now its too late.
liberty > james 315 twitching over us nervous about shouting out
...and then they compared the New Order to the grasshoppers in "A Bug's Life". I must admit, I didn't see that one coming. If the movie followed the pattern of EVE, I don't think it would have had a happy ending for the ant protagonists. The audience would've been rooting for the grasshoppers anyway.
Bing Bangboom > if you had met my terms this would not have happened.
liberty > lol up his ass save us make more isk for him self
Bing Bangboom > how much did you lose this week?
liberty > doesnt matter how much lost unlike you guys i know this is a game and things can be replaced rebuilt n the fight goes on how every you attack us we are USATO
liberty > United Systems Against Terrorist Opperaitons
liberty delivered a stirring speech and concluded by almost spelling her alliance name correctly. By this point, I'm beginning to suspect that she's contractually obligated to put a typo in every line of text she writes.
Alaric Tannehill > once all the miners stand up its game over
Tylonal > The miners can easily do that, Just stop going afk.
Alaric Tannehill > I think they should go AFK as much as they want
Tylonal > They can, but they should dock first.
Tylonal > or go cloak.
liberty > u dont test too see who is bots confess dont even bump just camercarzy barges even those you make pay the permits
Tylonal > and with a permit, you have no worry about gankers
liberty > bs bs bs and more bs confess your just skanky gankers and you know it
It's a shame the resistance compares us to the Nazis more often than to Imperial Japan. I'd enjoy seeing how many different ways liberty can spell "camercarzy".
Yosef Brinalle > The only true winners of EVE are RMTers and people who don't play. Therefore if the CODE discourages even 1 person from turning trial acct into paying acct it is worth it.
Tylonal > I'm just trying to save you. =(
liberty > this is why usato stands against it new order isnt saving it its killing eve by ganking new players
liberty > they get turned off the game n we all loose out down with new order Viva la revolution
As if going down a resistance talking points checklist, liberty trotted out the "new players" chestnut. Now that I've got it, I'm going to make use of this link.
Tylonal > If they do get ganked, It's because they are afk / do not have a permit, and if they get turned off at eve because a Venture has died.
Tylonal > Well... That's eve.
Alaric Tannehill > no, that is not eve
Yosef Brinalle > The only people you save are the ones you drive from the game. So keep ganking those newbs! Repeatedly. As many times as it takes to make them quit.
Alaric Tannehill > that is what you would like it to be
liberty > say too james 315 for us his favourate rebel leader says hi bing
Bing Bangboom > James knows every word you say, liberty.
What Bing says is true. Nothing happens in highsec without my knowing about it. For the most part, though, nothing is happening in highsec. At least, it wasn't until the New Order came around. I wonder how many new players decided to keep playing EVE because they saw Code-based activity, rather than the empty tombs that once comprised highsec local channels?
Bing Bangboom > you aren't sneaking up behind me, are you?
liberty > i do try but im not as good in the shadows as u r bing
liberty > too cloak and dagger for me lol
liberty > right i gotter rush getting light here that late hehe kids be up soon n be no sleep then nn
Bing Bangboom > good night lib
liberty > stay safe and too all non new order give em hell n send regards too james with dirt in the eye n all :)
Evidently liberty has children. Some might find this a frightening prospect. However, I prefer to give liberty the benefit of the doubt. At least she doesn't make her children mine for her--that we know of, anyway.

In the end, liberty's decade of bot-aspirancy came to nothing. Here's the key point: She still wouldn't have had anything to show for it, even if her rogue director hadn't stolen everything. Whether or not you believe "new players" are being chased away from EVE, threatening the existence of the game, one way or another, your virtual assets will one day disappear. If you make EVE about isk-grinding, you will end up like liberty. The New Order wouldn't wish that fate upon anyone.


  1. "I wonder how many new players decided to keep playing EVE because they saw Code-based activity, rather than the empty tombs that once comprised highsec local channels?"


    1. I have to say, I use to play EvE for a long time, been away from the game since Real Life kind of took over, but been thinking about coming back. It's an interesting change in the events going on since I left,

      But I do wonder, since I was more PvP than industry minded before, I've been wondering:

      When agents get killed/ganked are they also required by the Code to "good fight" or "gf" the one that killed them and thank them for teaching them to fit better ships? Just looking over the various killmails, I'd say most of the Catas are DPS fitted for max damage, making them more like glass cannons than what you'd see in most 0.0 fleets. They don't seem to fit a tank on them. Isn't that almost exactly the same problem you complain about on the miner ships, untanked BS and barges?

      Heck, I might add that it feels like the agents are almost PvP- bot-aspirancy. If it were for anything else this would be fail-fit. In fact they only seem to do one thing, kill a ship before Concord kills them. I'm against Bots, but I'm equally against crappy PvP and it seems the Code almost calls for people to forget how to actually PvP and embrace a single dimension of it, the DPS burn race.

      So James, does destroying Agent ships to help them get better at PvP and fit better ships, would that make me a friend to the New Order, trying to save them from themselves, or do I get inked with the Red Pen for trying to make you better?

      If I come back, I intend to help the agents be better.


    2. If you can come up with a way to better fit a ship to gank someone in HiSec... then please let us know!

  2. TIL Left and right are the same. We must fight to stop the Swastika-wearing Red Menace before its too late!



    1. Shooty McShootshootMarch 15, 2014 at 3:17 AM

      Only quads can kill UltraGigaAdolfStalin...

      Sorry, wrong website.

  3. The liberty stories always brighten up my day. Keep on fighting the good fight, NO!

    -Penniless Supporter

  4. "In the meantime, she would root out the traitors from the alliance. That would be the easy part, since everyone had already left."



  6. James ...
    "...because they're too greedy to give up a single isk in the name of emergent gameplay. They'll buy things from the market because they don't recognize that as human interaction."

    It really boggles me that you would consider what you're doing to be emergent gameplay. You're organizing a gang of stick-up kids to extort money from people who mine ore. That's basically price-fixing (decreasing the supply of minerals in order to drive up the price.) It works and is a very old practice that's illegal in real life. It has a profoundly negative impact on the people who have to purchase goods in and around the place you operate.

    Still, you give your victims too little credit. Even if we do abuse the definition of emergent gameplay to include your permits, people declining to pay are participating. Certainly not in the way you might like, but participating all the same. They are online, they are saying no, and well, you don't get to control that. They can say no. Perhaps that's the beauty of any emergent system - people are simply presented with a new gameplay choice. That they still choose to ignore you, even given the real risk of destruction, should tell you just how committed they are to their gameplay style.

    I think what I find most galling about your activity is that you're dishonest about it. I do not believe, not for one moment, that you are attempting to improve the lives of your victims. By saying this I know you'll take the bait and proclaim still more loudly that you truly are, but I know better - you're price fixing, nothing more nothing less. You're selling ore you mined (probably while afk) in these systems and cleaning up on the inflated price. If I were you I'd even be shipping ore in, bought cheaper else, and selling it where there is this shortage. You're selling the very ships your stick-up kids are destroying.

    This is only emergent gameplay for you and I'm really not sure that counts as emergent gameplay. You've done a decent job at making the game more interesting, and profitable, for yourself. No one else. That's not emergent gameplay as CCP, or anyone else, intends it. I know you can't be honest about it, because then the house of cards falls and your ability to do what you do decreases, but I see through this and eventually the stick-up kids will too. If they don't already. And so too will your victims and, eventually, the areas you operate in will simply be abandoned. I believe that's why CCP will continue to nerf high-sec; it doesn't want lawless ghost towns in high-sec. That's why there's low sec. What you do can never be done on a large scale, and you are ultimately going to be defeated by CCP making it just that much harder to do.

    Until then - thanks for driving up the prices and also telling us all exactly where those prices are higher. For anyone who cares to look it up, go see the system map that James claims as his own - sell your ore there for more ISK.

    Be well.

    1. "I do not believe, not for one moment, that you are attempting to improve the lives of your victims."

      The people on the receiving end of our blasters are only "victims" so long as they choose to be. Pursuing a mining career places you firmly at the bottom of the Eve PVP hierarchy. We enlighten them to this fact, and if we can turn one in one hundred into a predator rather than prey, it's worth it.

      And I absolutely agree that any form of resistance is an example of emergent gameplay. But there can be no resistance without the New Order. The Order enriches these miner's gameplay no matter if they support us or rebel against us. In either case, we achieve our objective.

      As for your price fixing theory, I can assure you that 99% of agents and knights do not mine. Mining is actually really bad money. It's only good in terms of effort/isk if you consider AFK mining. Even then, it's bad money compared to AFK ratting in nullsec. AFK ratting is, of course, acceptable because there is no assumption of safety from a omniscient, omnipotent NPC police force, and any safety is through the actions of dozens if not hundreds of players over the course of at least several weeks to claim and protect the space.

      Hit me up ingame at this name, Rob. I'd love to talk to a levelheaded dissenter.

    2. I'd like to share my two cents, AFK is not a gameplay style, it's letting the game run for you. I'm not saying you are saying this Rob, just giving my opinion.

      And price fixing you say, I'd say you are right in that the New Order does create the higher prices, but also note that it is the AFK miners that make mining bad money for anyone who doesn't AFK mine by flooding the market with ores and minerals.

      Again, just my two cents, no personal attacks or putting words in mouths.

      ---Friendly Neighborhood Scoundrel

  7. 290xanaots - to say that they are your victims only so long as they choose to be is to REALLY split a hair. They're your victims. They don’t have to be your victims. You could just not shoot them like you’re not shooting thousands of other players. But, you do shoot them, so they’re your victims. Own it, ya know? Stop with this ruse and just own it – you’re the bad guy in this scenario. It’s ok to be the bad guy in a sandbox game, just don’t pretend you’re doing people a favor when you blow them up while they’re AFK. You absolutely are not. It’s insulting to the rest of us that you ask us to believe otherwise. It’s like asking me to believe that a book written 3500 years ago is the word of God.

    Now to your statement “if we can turn one in one hundred into a predator rather than prey, it's worth it” … so … it’s “worth it” to destroy someone who is AFK, which you profit from, if just 1% of them turns predator. Do you see how that doesn’t really work as an explanation? You’re not giving up anything. You’re not hurting, or sacrificing. Everything you do profits you from the salvage value to the bounties that people pay for destroyed mining vessels, to the bragging about it to James and others. You are in no way a martyr. If anything it is the AFK miner who feels that it is worth the risk of being destroyed to go AFK. He is the one risking things.

    As for good/bad money – AFK mining is great money for reading a book while playing. Most of us are, essentially, lifers in Eve. I’ve been in since 2006 and have billions to my name. We’re not going anywhere and so even a few million an hour is great money. You burn out on these kinds of games if you overplay them and min/max them. We’re just having fun clicking a few buttons while we make dinner, read a book, or program. We’re going to be here, regardless.

    Alistair Drake, as for your two cents – I agree that AFK mining is just letting the game run for you. I don’t really see the problem with that. It’s passive income. And while this passive income does add to the overall availability of ore, diminishing its value, it’s still better to actively mine than AFK mine. The mining cycle is such that you can be wasting your laser for up to three minutes because the rock you targeted only had 1 m3 of ore left. Activity is always rewarded over passivity in this game, but Eve is not about min/maxing. It’s not about “zOMG I’m going to get the HIGHEST ISK possible because I just love ISK that much.” Sometimes, it’s just nice to have a distraction.

    I will say that there seems to be a mentality that many players are ONLY AFK mining in Eve. That’s just ridiculous. One activity does not a player make. No one in Eve ONLY mines AFK and does NOTHING else in the game. That’s a caricature made to dehumanize the people you’re attacking. The truth of the matter is that these players are simply competition and James has created a cover story to destroy them. He AFK mines; I’m sure of it. It’s like those Republicans who come out all hellfire and fury about gay people – usually, those people are gay.

    Maybe that’s why the New Order strikes such a negative chord with me – I sincerely despise organized religion, as I’m sure most of you do. Most smart people do. Consider that.

    Be Well.

    1. Glad you took my two cents the way I meant, mostly at least. I don't know where you got the impression I was saying that is all they do, if I'm going to say that I'm going to use those exact words and you can bet money on that.

      And of course no one can stop them from going AFK, that's their right, it's just the whining to CCP to fix things when they already have the tools necessary to protect themselves and not accepting the risk they are taking by going AFK in the first place that gets my goat.

      I will say I do understand why players do AFK mine sometimes at least, I know I've found it utterly boring. What I mean to say is that AFK and ATK mining fleets pretty much make mining bad money for anyone who doesn't have access to them, which is all well and good really because friends=power in EVE.

      However, I must disagree with you on the NO being like organized religion, it's a group of people that are willing to have fun by ganking miners that are AFK and exposing them to the risk that is one of EVE's selling points sometimes for the first time. It often seems like a lot of people shown on this site are against the New Order, but if it was just the people that accepted the different gameplay James has come up with, then it wouldn't exactly be entertaining now would it?

      And as a final point to share, I didn't join EVE once to become "space-rich" I joined because of the stories of player interaction and how entire virtual empires built over months and sometimes years can come crumbling down in a fraction of the time it took to build them.

      Fly Safe.


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