Thursday, November 28, 2013

How Much Time Should Miners Have to Respond?

For those of you who don't follow the MinerBumping forum, there's been a debate there about how quickly a miner should be expected to respond in local after being called upon by an Agent. A miner writing under the name ne14a69 complained that he was bumped, even though he intended to reply after spending 20 seconds to finish up a comment he was making in corp chat. I gave ne14a69 the following advice:
"Imagine you were mining in nullsec and a hostile ship warped into the belt. Would you spend "maybe 20 seconds" to finish the sentence you were typing in Corp chat, or would you react immediately to the threat? Of course you'd react to the threat. Your sluggishness here is based on your perception that highsec mining is safe. Instead, in the same way you react to a nullsec threat, you should make it your number one priority to obey a command from an Agent while mining in New Order territory.

"Even if you were speaking with your corp CEO, you should put that aside in favor of responding to the Agent. Remember, in highsec, any Agent outranks everyone in your corp/alliance. If you absolutely must speak with your corp without interruption, then you can always dock up."
My rule of thumb is to require a miner to answer me within 5 seconds of being asked. After all, I'm not asking for them to write War and Peace or even to drop a "Praise James" in local. A simple two-character "yo" or "o/" or "o7" will suffice.


For the miners of highsec, it all comes down to what their local Agent requires of them. Each Agent of the New Order is given the authority to to judge for himself or herself what is necessary to ensure Code-compliance. Agents like Krig Povelli, for instance.
EVE System > Channel changed to Local : Airaken
Krig Povelli > Ace Eternity are you AFK?
Krig Povelli > Please respond
Krig Povelli > Ace?
Krig Povelli > I see...
Krig did a routine spot-check of an ore miner in one of the Airaken asteroid belts. Living up to his name, Ace Eternity took forever to respond. Krig was sitting next to him in a Catalyst. You do the math.


Krig opened fire and outfought the miner. Without a ship to mine in, Ace left the system. The story might have ended there, with the happy ending I just described. However, the local miners were shocked by the death of their fellow oremonger, and they expressed their outrage.
Josephine Sauveterre > Maybe you should be realistic and give people more than 40 seconds before you pass judgment? He might be off changing his kids diaper or something..
Krig Povelli > 40 seconds is more than enough time
Runawae > to change a diaper ?
Krig Povelli > He should always be vigilant
Krig Povelli > One should not play Eve Online while watching kids
Runawae > I hate you to do it on 40 sec
It was your classic miner excuse. "What if I have to change a diaper? What if I have to help fix someone's plumbing?" Let's get real. The bot-aspirants who hoard isk and mine in contravention of the Code are not going AFK to save the world. They're probably pursuing their own selfish desires, just like they do in-game.
Krig Povelli > It is irresponsible
Josephine Sauveterre > That's not for you to decide
Krig Povelli > I am here to enforce the Code
Krig Povelli > It is for me to decide
Krig Povelli > I am an Agent of the New Order
Josephine Sauveterre > Do you also pay for other people's subs? No you're just another douchebag.
If you've ever enforced the Code, you've probably heard miners like Josephine pull the "you can't tell me what to do unless you pay for my subscription" card. I've never understood it. Do they think The Mittani pays for tens of thousands of other players' subscriptions before he acts as leader of his coalition? Or is a miner entitled to anarchy in highsec for some arbitrary reason?
Krig Povelli > In what way?
Krig Povelli > I was doing him a favor
Josephine Sauveterre > You think you can dictate how other people play a game they pay real cash for? That makes you a douchebag.
Krig Povelli > As we speak I am writing him a friendly mail about the teachings of James 315
Josephine Sauveterre > Yeah you do that. Meanwhile, back in the real world. You're still a douche.
Krig Povelli > I disagree, Josephine Sauveterre
Krig Povelli > I spend time out of my day to protect Hisec from Bot Aspirants
Josephine Sauveterre > Of course you do. Douchebags seldom realize that they are douchebags.
Krig Povelli > I am a public servant of the highest honor and integrity
How can you tell the difference between an Agent and a tyrant? Both have total authority over the people they rule. What sets them apart is that Agents care about helping people, not about boosting their own egos. Despite Ace's giving him the silent treatment, Krig thoughtfully sent him an EVEmail about me and my teachings. So much for the "douchebag" theory.
Josephine Sauveterre > Well, bot or not, 40 seconds is not reasonable. I don't log off my miner if my kid wants me to make her a sandwich, or if I want to go take a piss.. Since you don't realize that, you're just a douche. There's no honor or integrity in what you do.
Krig Povelli > - No AFK mining allowed. All miners are expected to remain at their keyboards at all times, and are required to prove their presence by responding in local when requested by the Supreme Protector or one of his Agents
Krig Povelli > http://www.minerbumping.com/p/the-code.html
Partisan Noir > that epic discussion
Krig Povelli > - Upon being suicide ganked, a miner should congratulate the ganker on his success. A "good fight" or "gf" in local is customary.
Krig Povelli > where is my "gf"?
Veronica Badasaz > ohh no they dont
Josephine attempted to continue the debate. She was at a distinct disdavantage. She had her opinions, but Krig was armed with the Code. And he wasn't afraid to use it.
Josephine Sauveterre > I can tell you to f*ck off, that's about what you'll be getting.
Krig Povelli > - Keep local clean. Miners should be courteous in local and should refrain from the use of profanity.
Josephine Sauveterre > As a douche of the new order of douchery.
Josephine Sauveterre > you bow to your douchemaster Douche 315
Krig Povelli > Ace Eternity could have saved a whole lot of trouble buy purchasing a permit and by not being AFK
Veronica Badasaz > Your getting to full of yourself really....
Backed into a corner, Josephine had no choice but to return to her vulgarity of choice. She couldn't concentrate hard enough to come up with more excuses for AFK mining.
Krig Povelli > 10 mil. ISK per year
Krig Povelli > Quite generous
Krig Povelli > If they purchase a permit they are safe as long as they obey the code
Veronica Badasaz > as long as they obey the code omfg..
Veronica Badasaz > like your somekind of god or something
Krig Povelli > I am just a humble agent of the New Order
Krig Povelli > I also knit sweaters and play tennis
Veronica Badasaz > You knit wow...
Krig Povelli > I do lots of things, but I am no God
Krig Povelli > It takes a lot of skill and finesse
Krig Povelli > just like Ganking violators of the Code
The rebel miners, carebears, and bot-aspirants of highsec may not admit that they respect us, but they do covet our power. To them, the ability to command a highsec miner is a sign of omnipotence. In their world, maybe that's true. For most, power tends to corrupt. Yet the Agents of the New Order have proven to be incorruptible. So when an Agent stops by and asks if you're AFK, you can be sure that they'll give you a fair, appropriate amount of time to answer. If you spend that time unwisely, you only have yourself to blame.

56 comments:

  1. Ugh, carebears.

    They think EVE should be a space-WoW, I say they should go back to playing star-trek online.

    Miners and carebears... Disgusting.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I am guessing you understand nothing about economics. In EVE, all ships are made from minerals. The way you get minerals is by mining (You could make the point of saying "You can also get minerals from reprocessing and blah blah", while true, you would never get enough to make anything in a good amount of time, and is riskier and in the end more expensive). Now, if the way to make spaceships in EVE is by getting minerals which were acquired through mining, that would make miners the most important link on the EVE isk-chain, as they give you the items you play the game with. Thus why you shouldn't kill miners, you're hurting the entire community if you do that as you disrupt the flow of ISK.
      Another reason why the Code is idiotic and harmful

      Delete
    2. Space Economics TutorNovember 29, 2013 at 7:48 AM

      I am seeing that you understand nothing about economics.

      "that would make miners the most important link on the EVE isk-chain, as they give you the items you play the game with. "

      the most important link is not the first link, but the weakest link. Currently there are way too many miners, and afk miners, so mining is not the weakest link in the production economy. also, miners don't "give" anyone anything, they sell their minerals, for very cheap, as minerals are overproduced.

      "Thus why you shouldn't kill miners, you're hurting the entire community if you do that as you disrupt the flow of ISK."

      Your argument fails. disrupting the flow of ISK doesn't necessarily hurt the entire community. But, since minerals are currently overproduced, reducing mineral production will raise mineral prices significantly, aiding smart ATK miners.

      Another reason why you are idiotic, but not very harmful, because no one listens to you.

      Delete
    3. Oh sure, kill a few dozen miners and you won't notice, that's because the New Order of Extortionists doesn't have the market power to do so. The thing is, I don't want to play in EVE when you fools do have market power, where you can actually hurt the EVE economy, thus why you need to be eradicated now, not later

      Delete
    4. Before you leave our highsec, please transfer all your goods and cash to James 315. Good man!

      Anonymous Random Ganker

      Delete
    5. I don't know who Space Economics Tutor / Troll Tutor is, but I definitely like that guy.

      Delete
  2. i never watch local

    ReplyDelete
  3. You never watch local, but decide to withhold your name to say that? A permit is only 10m isk and living the Code is easy. It is also cheaper to be Code compliant. Smart miners understand all of this. You are already on the website. Simply click "The Code" tab at the top and start reading.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Smart miners know that giving in to a group of extortionists and low class, unskilled players is something to be ashamed, so they fight back against evildoers such as this horrid Code

      Delete
    2. Smart miners get a permit and laugh as their competition gets exploded.

      Delete
    3. smart miners dont give a shit for "mining permits" and "Jimmy boy and his happy dimwhits"
      xD

      Delete
    4. Erotica 1 of all wants to talk about being smart, lol.

      <- Insert Einstein reference about infinity here

      Delete
  4. Living the code means doing what you CLOWNS say to do and that just will not happen...

    ReplyDelete
  5. Your permits are worthless, your cult is a cancer on the beauty that is New Eden. If you want my mining barge, Molon Labe!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Since you're anonymous, I just destroyed a random mining barge and decided it was yours.

      Delete
    2. And the ARROGANT STUPIDITY of the new order continues on...

      Delete
    3. Doing as you ask is arrogant? Perhaps you should look up what that word means.

      Delete
    4. I'm thinking Molon Labe might be his character name.

      Delete
    5. It's not, and if you know anything about history you'd figure out why I said it
      And you didn't destroy my mining barge, because I haven't lost mine to you bottom feeders, and I will see to it that I never will

      Delete
    6. "And you didn't destroy my mining barge, because I haven't lost mine to you bottom feeders, and I will see to it that I never will"

      No, I definitely destroyed it.

      Delete
    7. I even witnessed it, no need to lie!
      Go new order go!

      Delete
    8. I'm going to destroy every mining barge I see until I get to the bottom of this!!

      Delete
    9. So cute, you think you're always right. It's always funny when the maniacs think they get their own way, even when they didn't. This is another reason why I never want to live in High Sec again; not only is it boring, but has you guys in it. Null Sec fo' dayz

      Delete
    10. I also witnessed his mining barge destroyed. In a court of space law, that's the testimony of three noble Agents against the testimony of a single miscreant miner.

      Delete
  6. "Let's get real. The bot-aspirants who hoard isk and mine in contravention of the Code are not going AFK to save the world." - Real Talk garnished with a bit of humor. C'est Magnifique!

    Also, for the small-minded one who thinks that miners in highsec are the key to building all the ships people use in eve, please come back to reality, being out of your mind is far worse than being away from keyboard.
    Lowsec and Null miners do the same thing, with far greater risk to isk ratio.
    HTFU

    ReplyDelete
  7. Bah.
    There should be no warning.
    If they don't see you in local, and then don't see you snuggling up next to their shiny Hulk in a Catalyst, then they are either AFK or terminally dumb.
    ----Mike Adoulin

    ReplyDelete
  8. Well i must admit, mining in HiSec, without some gankers would be boring. Still dosnt matter.
    "Jimmby and hist happy" dimwhits are a group of faggots the prey on the weak.
    *tipes this while watching an AFK Miner minig ice with his orca and 5 or so alts. He is not impressed to!
    Bye bye guys with wet dreams.

    ReplyDelete
  9. "Now, if the way to make spaceships in EVE is by getting minerals which were acquired through mining, that would make miners the most important link on the EVE isk-chain, as they give you the items you play the game with. Thus why you shouldn't kill miners, you're hurting the entire community if you do that as you disrupt the flow of ISK." -Anonydumbass

    What?! Mining is not illegal. You just need to buy a permit and follow the Code. It is simple. You can mine what you need to build our catalysts and then move on to doing something more constructive. Don't be greedy!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Of course it isn't illegal you fool! Why would it be illegal? None of the Empires have a big sign saying "You can't mine here". Murder, on the other hand is, illegal, and thus why the Code must be eradicated. Oh, and you can shove your "permit" into one of my blas..... oh that is right! Silly me, I forget, you guys are unable to play in Null Sec due to incompetence at playing against real PVP Pilots. And reality check Code... EVE is an open market, therefore making a profit is the idea, so I will be greedy if I want, it's the name of the game!

      Delete
    2. Anon - i really do hate to bring reality crashing down around you, BUT...there is such a presence of New Order pilots in null that if YOU happen to be in null and not blue, you have a good chance of being smoked like a cheap cigar by one of them.
      do you honestly think that with one of the most prevolent claims in the eve universe that James is The Mittani, and the New Order are just goon puppets? last time i checked goons RAN null.
      its nice to be anonymous but being ignorant, not so much.

      Delete
    3. Sign and Painting Guild RepresentativeDecember 1, 2013 at 7:20 PM

      "None of the Empires have a big sign saying "You can't mine here"."

      The only big sign I remember seeing in Empire is a big sign with Ero1's face on it--which pretty much says "you can't mine here".

      Delete
  10. James is just internet Hitler, leading his minions of kids and middle-aged basement dwellers to harass us while we do honest work in this game. The only good thing about the New Order is that it keeps these crazy people on their computers instead of out in the real world robbing banks and knocking over gas stations. If you told your mothers what you do in this game, do you really think they would be proud?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I wouldn't be proud of my son If he was like you...unable to separate real life morality from the rules of a videogame. If my son told me I am a bad person because I sinked his submarine in the Battleship game, I would be very disappointed.

      Delete
    2. son I am disappoint...

      Delete
    3. "while we do honest work in this game"

      It's a game. Why would you do anything that's considered 'work'?

      Delete
    4. "it keeps these crazy people on their computers instead of out in the real world robbing banks"

      Isn't there a new game for that called Pay Day 2?

      Delete
  11. I also believe that Mr. Povelli's corporation, "Mickey Mouse Clubhouse", is in direct violation of EVE Online Naming Policy as listed here: http://community.eveonline.com/support/policies/eve-user-policy/

    2.b. "In-game names may not: [...] Reflect, glorify or emulate any real-world group or organization [...] or their leaders and figureheads"

    Consequently Mr. Povelli is also in violation of the same policy, as stated in article 3.c.:

    "Player-run corporations, factions, organizations and player-owned items within the EVE Online game world are also subject to these rules and policies. Players may not create, promote or be a member of a group that violates the policies outlined herein. Membership or participation in such a group may result in character deletion, temporary suspension or termination of a subscriber’s account."

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Why? Because we like you!

      Delete
    2. Funny that you believe "Mickey Mouse Clubhouse" is a real-world group or organization. Tell me.. have you ever been to "World World" or "Chuggington"?..

      Keep trying, Mr. "Anonymous ".. at least I have the balls to post with my character name ;)

      Delete
  12. These posts have convinced me to lay down my mining barges and take up a humble life enforcing the code.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. No need to be humble while you enforce the Code - being an Agent makes you one of the Good Guys (or Gals).

      Delete
  13. Came across this site after hearing about this game. I can't wait to blow up some miners- sounds like a lot of fun.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Then you'd be joining possibly the second most hated group in EVE Online (I say possibly because Goonswarm is hated by many, but loved by many as well). You'd be playing EVE PVP, if you can call it PVP, the easy way, killing things that can't shoot back much if at all. Just join the ranks of the Goons and get out of High Sec, do us a favor

      Delete
    2. Don't listen to your future victims.
      There is even a term that is used often in eve for the post above mine. It is "butthurt".
      Don't get butthurt in eve and you will have a good time in eve \o/.

      Delete
    3. Anon 9:28, you see your first answer? That's fear. You will be feared and respected. People who say what they think and do what's right despite what's more convenient are heroes. Hate and tears will fuel your ships. Also the good people of EVE will love you.

      Delete
    4. I think it's funny how people bring the term "PvP", then call it "so-called PvP" then say it's not really PvP at all.

      I've read a few articles in this site. Never once have I ever seen anyone post what The Order does as PvP. It's always "We will blow you up.".
      However, if you disseminate the actual term PvP, or Player versus Player, where this is literally two players in competition. Regardless of whether or not the other player can fight back is not relevant.

      Delete
    5. It's definitely a lot of fun, as you can see from the butthurt on display in some of these comments.

      Delete
  14. "How can you tell the difference between an Agent and a tyrant? Both have total authority over the people they rule. What sets them apart is that Agents care about helping people, not about boosting their own egos."

    A tyrant will always find a pretext for his tyranny. "Helping people." Please.

    The wool is pulled over the eyes of none. Your operation is TEXTBOOK extortion.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Is this textbook available on Amazon? Please provide a link.

      Delete
    2. By your textbook idea of "extortion", the taxes you pay to your government are extortion. I know what you're thinking: "but i chose my government!". Did you choose the way you're being governed? Did you choode your government in a truly meaningful way (choosing between A or B isn't a very open choice). Government is there because it has the power to rule over you. Therefore you have to pay the taxes it asks, or you face consequences. The New Order is not different.

      Delete
    3. "choosing between A or B isn't a very open choice"
      The two-party duopoly. Opening a can of worms there.

      Delete
    4. Yep...I think that two-party duopoly is the failure of democracy, the proof that a real, complete democracy is impossible. However, I agree with Churchill: "It has been said that democracy is the worst form of government except all the others that have been tried."

      Delete

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