jollena Khema > quit spinning something that you cannot win here, i'm a paralegal, and hold a MS from St. Norberts University in wisconsin for Information Security & Cyber Security (that includes specific classes in IT laws).With her education and experience with highsec space law, jollena could bring down the New Order once and for all. Even CCP devs would be bent to her will.
Arden Elenduil > And it is still the game developers that have the final word
jollena Khema > devs may set the general rules but for specific cases like this one....... i'm sure i'll win
Arden Elenduil > I'm actually quite convinced of the oppositejollena was supremely confident in her legal training, but Arden was equally confident in the power of the Code. And he, too, had an impressive highsec education: The school of MinerBumping. He destroyed jollena's "can't own highsec" argument in a flash.
jollena Khema > CODE and its affilates don't "own" hi-sec space, nor can they enforce their will upon those who have no interest in CODE or its affialtes beliefs.
Arden Elenduil > code can claim ownership, and if they can enforce it in the environment of highsec, then that's perfectly fine
Arden Elenduil > in lowsec or wormhole space, one can't "claim" space in the way nullsec alliances can
Arden Elenduil > but they enforce their rule
jollena Khema > the law of nullsec and what was 0.0: shoot first and you don't have to ask questions laterjollena was taken completely by surprise. It was obvious she hadn't been keeping up with the latest MinerBumping literature. Big mistake.
Arden Elenduil > in highsec it's the same, it's just that the rules of engagement and ways of enforcing are different
Arden Elenduil > anyone can grab a catalyst and go on a rampage in the belts
Arden Elenduil > shooting first and not bothering to ask questions later
jollena Khema > just because your propaganda says so doesn't make it so
Arden Elenduil > it's approved gameplay by the developers themselvesArden won the first round, but jollena wouldn't give up without a fight. The space law debate continued.
jollena Khema > i won't speak ill of the devs, although their not very keen on every potential consequence of a decision
jollena Khema > every policy has unintended consequences, their not immediate but its there
Arden Elenduil > and what would you call the unintended consequences of this situation?
jollena Khema > allowing CODE and its affiliates free reign to do as they wish whenever
jollena Khema > CODE's behavior is an example of unintended consequences of a policy
Arden Elenduil > wardecs, in effect, are also non consensual pvpArden continued to gain ground. In desperation, jollena injected some sarcasm. But things weren't looking good for the anti-Order space lawyer. She was losing on her own turf.
Arden Elenduil > would you ban wardecs aswell?
jollena Khema > wardecs are part of the game and that is accepted, what isn't is having to pay for a "permit" to enjoy a specific part of this game
jollena Khema > your code doesn't state those who pay will have 100% immunity of being killed either......... no diffrent than a randsom wardec
Arden Elenduil > the code does promise safety from code ganks (and only code ganks) IF those that purchased the permit adhere to the code
Arden Elenduil > if they are spotted violating the code, their permit will be revoked immediately
jollena Khema > nothing says that they can be called AFK just for the sake of ganking them, tell me how does killing a bunch of miners make your kill boards look wonderful?
jollena Khema > i played that bull@#$% game comming back from low-sec on my other account the jackass started blasting me while the game was transitioning me to hi-secOut of nowhere, jollena complained about someone causing her to spend 300 isk during a routine jump. Yes, a carebear will even complain about losing 300 isk in PvP. Now you see why a 10 million isk permit is such an obstacle for many.
Arden Elenduil > eh, what do you mean?
jollena Khema > he thought i was an easy target because i had been "AFK" but insted was waiting the ms lag to "gate" into another starsystem
Arden Elenduil > what did you lose?
jollena Khema > about 300 isk for repairs
jollena Khema > as for my death i wasn't bumped as is custom and law by your agents, they just showed up and blasted awayDespite her legal skills, jollena was beginning to sound like every other two-bit bot-aspirant in highsec. It was the old "not enough warning" complaint. Even her zero-align-time Capsule couldn't get out before being shot.
Arden Elenduil > could you please link your killmail?
jollena Khema > Kill: jollena Khema (Mackinaw)
jollena Khema > Kill: jollena Khema (Capsule)
Arden Elenduil > and you say this happened on a gate?
jollena Khema > no that happened in Aydoteaux
Arden Elenduil > ah, so they were 2 completely unrelated events?
jollena Khema > yes
jollena Khema > i didn't even have time to warp out let alone get my engines online
jollena Khema > your code also requires your "victims" to be bumped to verify their afk, this didn't happen.... thus the problemjollena put the whole system on trial. Unless the EULA said people could be ganked for not having a permit, she wouldn't buy one.
Arden Elenduil > actually, that's not true
Arden Elenduil > some decide to give a few warning bumps
Arden Elenduil > others instantly decide to gank
Arden Elenduil > however, the bumps and convos are "courtesies"
jollena Khema > yeah and that is a problem for me, see your gank squads just kill without care and without reguard for your code of honor
jollena Khema > i don't need a stinking permit to fly let alone live in hi-sec, what part of that don't you get...... CCP dev's didn't write in their rules that James 315's laws are final and those who don't pay for protection will be destroyed
jollena Khema > and those that do pay for protection aren't guarenteed 100% saftey even when you do follow themAt last, the legal argument was over. Not because Arden won every point, mind you, but because jollena was getting bored. (A wise MinerBumping reader will see through this diguise, as highsec mining is far more boring!) Having been out-spacelawyered, jollena appealed to the law of the jungle. She would unleash her most powerful ship against the Order.
Arden Elenduil > the only place in eve that is 100% safe is inside the station
jollena Khema > again undeclred corp war randsom
Arden Elenduil > sorry?
jollena Khema > only diffrence is your not targeting a corp your targeting the mining community
jollena Khema > i'm getting bored to death of trying to help you understand this shouldn't have happened as CODE doesn't OWN hi-sec space, and let your friends know that i'll be bringing along much heavier firepower to protect my assets in the field
Arden Elenduil > would you mind giving me a sneak peak as to what said heavier firepower is?Not for the first time, a carebear suddenly claimed to be a skilled PvP'er. Not the character she was speaking with, of course. That character could do nothing but mine in highsec.
jollena Khema > no but its going to be much bigger than really cheap Catalyst your suicide squad uses
Arden Elenduil > also, code has laid its claim over highsec
jollena Khema > only because you've frightened everyone into paying but me
Arden Elenduil > and i take it you're an experienced pvper?
jollena Khema > i am
Arden Elenduil > i've looked up your character on the killboards
jollena Khema > you know my charecter, but not the other account i've got
jollena Khema > the other "box" has ships on it that would and should frighten your gank squads
Arden Elenduil > well, you see, i have a bit of an issue, well issue's a big word, with boasts such as thatThe former Mackinaw pilot spun visions of terror. Her cloaked ships could appear anywhere, at any time. And only the limitations of highsec kept her mighty dreadnought fleet at bay.
Arden Elenduil > the line "other account/other character" has been used so wearily often
Arden Elenduil > that it simply holds no credibility anymore
jollena Khema > the other charecter is cloaked, and nukes your gank squad the second they fire upon the miner
jollena Khema > just one painful idea you can face
jollena Khema > if i could bring the dread into the system your gank squad would run wetting itself like little 3 yr old scared
Arden Elenduil > question: what is the max number of targets of a properly fitted dreadnaught?jollena terminated the conversation. As she flounced away, she warned that the New Order's victory was fleeting. Eventually, however, she must have received a response to her petition. CCP wasn't going to ban the New Order for ganking her Mackinaw.
Arden Elenduil > max number of ships you can lock
jollena Khema > with my skills i can only take on 4 at a time
Arden Elenduil > aaaand busted
Arden Elenduil > you don't even have a dread
Arden Elenduil > how do i know this? because a properly fitted dread can lock a maximum of 2 targets with a tech 1 siege module, and 3 with a tech 2
Arden Elenduil > and this is a hard limit
jollena Khema > even hard limits have an exception
Arden Elenduil > do tell
jollena Khema > now i grow bored of dealing with a person who wants to controll the universe through fear and terror. Enjoy your time of "control" as it is quickly dissapearing. "Die Quick, often, and poor"
...Which left only one alternative. If you can't beat us (and you can't), join us.