Thursday, October 3, 2013

The Hard Sell, Part 1

Victory! Nearly a dozen Agents, including three Brutixes, succeeded in destroying Avacyn Eternal's fail-fit Orca in a 0.7 security system. Six hundred million in contraband down the drain. Avacyn might have thought our Agents would be fooled by the shield mods, but all good miners know that a proper Orca doesn't fit any cargo expansion mods. All available slots must be used for tank.

Avacyn had been using mining drones to scrape up minerals from the asteroids. It takes a long time to fill up an Orca that way, so naturally she was AFK. Twenty-five minutes later, she realized what happened to her, and she convoed Agent MotherSammy for guidance.

Avacyn was indignant that nobody warned her about the New Order's control of highsec. Dude, have you even read MinerBumping in the last year? We haven't done this in secret.

Killmails and killboards value equipment based on market value. Miners value things differently. If they're pretending they don't mind the loss, they'll downplay it. If they think reimbursement is still possible, or if they just want to shop around a sob story, they'll give an inflated estimate. Avacyn's tears included a ⅓ mark-up.

Avacyn was flat broke. Or so she would have us believe. If true, she must have bought the Orca with all of her money, immediately before getting blown up.

Incredibly, Avacyn claimed to have only half a million isk in her wallet. Not nearly enough to buy a mining permit.

Before the New Order transforms them into better people, carebears are only capable of a few things. Mining, whining, and lying are among them. MotherSammy and her fellow Agents used antimatter to stop Avacyn from mining, but the whining and lying continued. Either that, or Avacyn genuinely believed you can't make 10 million isk unless you mine with an Orca. Since Orcas cost hundreds of millions of isk, that presents quite a chicken/egg problem.

A lot of down-on-their-luck miners these days have been saying that they would have paid, if only they had been asked. They only say this after being killed, though. When we ask miners to pay before we kill them, they often refuse.

In any case, every miner who enters highsec is deemed to have been asked to pay, and is deemed to have agreed to pay. In other words, every miner without a permit is in debt for at least 10 million isk. It's impolite to make extravagant purchases when you're in debt to your friends. Pay us back first, and then you can treat yourself to that Orca you've had your eye on.

In the beginning, I did anchor secure containers near ice fields to notify the miners of their need to pay. But we live in the age of MinerBumping. This blog serves as an anchored container for all the world. Avacyn claimed to be too new to know any better. She's been playing EVE for about 20 weeks. She may have a point, though: There's not much you can learn about EVE in 20 weeks of AFK mining.

As always, our friendly Agent offered a shoulder for the carebear to cry on. Avacyn was distraught. Could MotherSammy convince her not to quit the game? And more importantly, could she convince Avacyn to fork over the 10 million isk she owed?

To be continued...


  1. How can he lose an orca in highsec and claim to be broke? It is amazing to me how many miners lie about everything. He is saying that he did not have any insurance, and that CCP has selectively decided not to provide him or other miners the basic insurance that everyone gets.

    1. You don't get insurance money if you lose your ship to concordokken. Clearly, this miner bought a second orca, and tried to exact revenge by suicide ganking a defenseless ( ganking catalysts fit no defensive mods, only offensive mods, so technically they are much more defenseless than a tanked barge) catalyst, with his battle-orca. success of this venture unknown, loss of second orca sans insurance a certainty.

  2. Agent Sammy -- "There's no need to quit."
    Carebear -- "But I can't mine."

    The whole minerbumping philosophy contained in two lines of dialogue. If all this game to you is mining, you're not really playing it.

    1. If all this game to you is harassing people that have a different playstyle than you, you're not really playing it.

      ..Except, of course, the fact that you ARE playing it, because it's a game. Bump and gank and extort or whatever, that's fine. Just stop sounding like bored e-daters with this whole satirical "philosophy" thing. The association is embarrassing to us that gank just for the hell of it.

    2. Someone cure my neurosyphilisOctober 4, 2013 at 1:09 PM

      If all this game is to you is ganking for the hell of it, you're not really playing it.

      ..Except, of course, for the fact that you don't exist, because you claim to be a ganker but you post anonymously. Lie and cheat and steal or whatever, that's fine. Just stop sounding like a 40-year old virgin with the whole ironic "I post anonymously but I'm embarrassed what OTHER players do in an online spaceships game". You make the rest of us men more likely to get laid with that kind of self-shame, which increases our chance of getting STD's and dying screaming in insanity in a hospital ward.

  3. Yeah pretty sure the default insurance on a 600M ISK ship is more than 500K.

    How'd she raise the Orca money in the first place...turning tricks?

    1. She turned the Pleasure Hub into a Pleasure Sanctum.

    2. She sure was raising a lot of industry indexes.

  4. To me all(most) everything what minerbumping cronies do is covered in the last line: "And more importantly, could she convince Avacyn to fork over the 10 million isk she owed?", but hey! James wrote it in so called "Code" : "Although profit is a primary motive of my new business...".
    Like someone wrote here: James and his comedians.

    1. No one can understand you.October 3, 2013 at 9:28 PM

      Try again, in English.

    2. "No one can understand you" meaning that you can't or rather don't want to.
      So the answer is : no.
      Antisocial, are we not "No one can understand you"?
      Learn other languages, so we could converse more freely.

    3. No one can understand you.October 3, 2013 at 10:33 PM

      Responding to your questions and commands, in order:




      Am I a comedian yet?

    4. You have always been one.

  5. If she wasn't afk, she may have been able to warp to a station and come back in time to loot her own wreck. Or, even with a noob ship, she could run some noob missions. Either way, there is never any legit excuse for being unable to afford a mining permit.

    Maybe Erotica is right, and mining permits should be more expensive. Then, watch these same miners say they can't afford it because they only have 10m isk.

  6. i...cant...mine...
    what does mining have to do with having isk for a permit?
    its sad to see someone so unwilling to even TRY the other hundred ways to make isk.
    that orca was a PRISON! Praise be the Knights of the New Order!!

  7. I didn't know if cropping all those screens would be worth it. Now I know it was!

    Stay tuned for part two!

    - Mothersammy

  8. I honestly didn't think very much of this gank at first. It was the last of our fleet-op and was the most difficult to set up. At this point we had been in fleet for about 6 hours and the fleet had run its course; we were done, but wanted that last gank. When this particular gank started we had a couple guys miss the first fleet warp… I believe this was due to connection issues. I tried holding cloak at each gate thereafter to give them a chance to catch up (except the target system). When that didn't work I tried bouncing us around moons. At which point one of the fleetmates started having connection issues and we were still down 2 people who were still trying to catch up. I decided our next best move was to dock up and wait it out. When I hit fleet warp to the station 2 of us instantly d/c'd, including myself. Luckily everyone made it to the station and we lost no ships to Facpo/whores. Within a few minutes we were all docked at the station, including the 2 who missed the first warp at the beginning. Although we didn’t have an insta-undock.. with time not being on our side at all for this particular gank the best action was to undock together, warp ourselves to the gate and hold cloak in target system if necessary. It worked flawlessly, everyone got into target system without lag, or issues. The rest is history. But, for this gank I was thinking to myself the entire time that we're taking too long and going to lose the opportunity/target. It was well worth it and I was really excited we got the Orca! I was also excited I could log off now :P

    Flying around with 3 flashy red Brutix’s and a handful of flashy red Cats, while half the fleet is concerned about connection issues, people are d/c’ing and playing catch-up.. it was time to call it ‘op success.’

    Thank you to everyone who participated in this! Was a *blast* ;)

    1. Nice work, and people say ganking is easy!

      - Guybertini

  9. This phrase raised a lot of of red lights "In any case, every miner who enters highsec is deemed to have been asked to pay, and is deemed to have agreed to pay." This is just wrong, the game is huge and while your site is known by a lot, it's not known by all. If it's your way of roleplaying it, so be it, it's fun to read, but it's just not true.

    1. Space Logic TeacherOctober 4, 2013 at 1:47 PM

      It is true. All miners who enter highsec are deemed to have been asked to pay, and are deemed to have agreed to pay. To negate this, logically, you would need to provide an example of a miner who entered highsec and was deemed not to have been asked to pay, or deemed not to have agreed to pay upon entering. Do you have an example of such a miner? If not, you are lying or mistaken.

    2. Space Logic TeacherOctober 4, 2013 at 1:50 PM

      correction, omitted a word before: 'need to provide an example of a miner who entered highsec, together with evidence that *everyone* deemed him not to have been asked for pay, etc.'

      a very high standard, but this is what it would take to falsify the statement you claimed to be false.

    3. And the ARROGANCE shines on...

    4. Shining is a good thing.

    5. Your logic is full of shit, so it's not logic, it's demagogy.
      Like this your buy a permit, or we'll shoot. First of no one wants to pay extortion money to gankers that will shoot them anyway 5 seconds after one fail to respond on local, fly on autopilot doing other stuff IN GAME, or upon any other trivial reason you NewOr pirates shoot at ships.
      I haven't got a permit = you shoot me.
      I have a permit = you can shoot me. It's just a matter of time.

    6. Space Logic TeacherOctober 5, 2013 at 1:30 AM

      "Your logic is full of shit, so it's not logic, it's demagogy."

      No, saying things like "your logic is full of shit" is demagogy. You keep using that word, but clearly have no idea what it means.

      "or upon any other trivial reason you NewOr pirates shoot at ships."

      You clearly have no idea what 'pirate','ships', and 'shooting' mean either, if you think being a Space Logic Teacher is the same thing as being a pirate shooting at ships.

    7. Any player who enters the game for the first time enters in high sec. He does not know anything but the things he's reading, and he has starter missions that require mining and provide a mining ship. Eve is full of examples everyday.

    8. Yes Gustavo, too many foolish players and often the tutorials themselves teach newbies bad habits. They say you have to stay in High Sec and mine becuase you can't have fun yet, you have to make ISK that way first. Leaving High Sec is too dangerous. So you mine or mission to make ISK to fuel your future endeavors, but before long your goal is only to make more ISK on top of that ISK. Your gamestyle becomes the meaningless piling up of virtual money you don't really use, If not to but things that let you pile up even more virtual money. You never have real fun playing EVE, you don't even experience what fun activities in EVE can be. This is the sad birth of a bot-aspirant carebear.

    9. Space Logic TeacherOctober 5, 2013 at 4:48 PM

      Gustavo, nothing you said above, even if one grants it all to be true, falsifies the statement you are trying to falsify. Surely you can see this?

      Let me make an example. Someone is driving for the first time, IRL. Does he know "nothing but the things he's reading on street signs?" How does he know that he can't be driving drunk, or on powerful drugs? that's not on signs, he had to read the manual to know that. Mining afk is worse than mining drunk, because you're not just impaired, you're not even there at all. Ignorance is no excuse for not knowing the law is a common saying. This saying doesn't mean that ignorance is impossible, but that ignorance is not a valid legal argument for avoiding punishment.

      This is approximately the error you are making. You are reading some simple sentences as saying "ignorance of the New Order is impossible." This isn't what those sentences are saying at all. They are simply saying "ignorance of the New Order isn't a valid reason to justify avoiding enforcement of the Code", because anyone who made a reasonable attempt to learn about EVE online would know about the New Order. If all you know about EVE online is what you see in your mission texts from your agents, then you don't know a reasonable amount about EVE, and so your ignorance is expected and not a valid excuse for any different treatment.

      Makes sense?

    10. No, it's a false argument, because in you example there's an state that makes and enforces the law and informs people about them.

      If I'm in gallente, amarr, minmatar or caldari high sec, that's the state that passes the law and enforces the law, with papa Concord watching over them. It's not the new order space, my overview clearly says so.

      And about what the original lines said, evidently we are reading different things in them, and that's ok. No need to discuss it further. That is part of life too.

    11. An illustrative analogy isn't an argument, it's an attempt to explain the situation to someone who isn't understanding which assumptions are reasonable. Until you can formulate reasonable assumptions, we can't even start the process of making arguments.

      "And about what the original lines said, evidently we are reading different things in them, and that's ok. No need to discuss it further. That is part of life too."

      Well if you would learn what the word "deem" meant then your functional illiteracy wouldn't be part of life, but as it stands, it is. I wish you luck with that.

  10. [Orca, 230k EHP plus ASB reps]
    Damage Control II
    Reinforced Bulkheads II

    Large Shield Extender II
    Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
    EM Ward Field II
    Large Ancillary Shield Booster

    Mining Foreman Link - Laser Optimization II
    Mining Foreman Link - Mining Laser Field Enhancement II
    Small Tractor Beam II

    Large Cargohold Optimization I
    Large Cargohold Optimization I
    Large Cargohold Optimization I

    -- Plenty of tank (plus ASB for added comfort).
    -- LCO I's reduce armor (an afterthought on an Orca, really). not structure (which is the Orca's primary tank); with max skills this gives ~57k cargohold (in addition to the 40k fleet hangar and 50k ore hold).

    Anyone can be ganked, no matter how much tank they fit - but this one could take a beating, and could be fit for more tank if you sacrifice the LCOs.

    If you don't fit DC II and bulkheads in the lows, you deserve to lose your boat.

    (And why the scanner on an Orca, even with the bonus? It isn't doing the mining.)

  11. [00:44:20] Avacyn Eternal > so we WORKED long and hard to afford it and now its gone
    (Emphasis mine)

    Eve is a game. It shouldn't be work. That's what our day jobs are for.


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