Tuesday, July 7, 2015

Elite PvP, by the Numbers

Last week, a sensation was caused by the release of Eve-Kill.net statistics showing that CODE. is the #1 alliance in EVE. I occasionally give advice to the Anti-Ganker "community", because I care about them. I do so once more today: If your goal is to stop us from getting kills, and we kill more than everyone else in the game, then you might be doing it wrong.

Although CODEdot destroyed more than any other alliance in EVE during the month of June, there were some in the community who questioned whether this truly constituted elite PvP as such. I returned to the numbers and did what some refer to as "going full Gevlon". It comes down to damage inflicted per alliance member. For example, we inflicted over twice as much damage as Brave Collective, but they have 32 times as many members as we do. Thus, we are more than 64 times as elite as Brave Collective is.

This can be a tricky measurement, as a tiny alliance of only a few people could easily earn a skewed damage/member ratio. Thus, the chart below only includes the same alliances as last week's chart: To earn a spot on the chart, an alliance must inflict a very large amount of damage. Rooks and Kings is also included.


As we can see, the empirical evidence shows us that CODEdot is not only the most destructive alliance, it is also performs the most elite PvP. We are about 10 times as elite as Black Legion. and Pandemic Legion, to offer two examples.

Some other points of interest. As you might expect, the alliances of the greatest size are at the bottom of the list, as they contain their PvE players under the same umbrella. Smaller alliances, more focused on PvP, are at the top. (The exception is Rooks and Kings, which fails to punch above its weight.)

But it's especially illuminating to consider what kind of alliances they are. The Marmite Collective is the second-most elite PvP alliance in the game, and also happens to focus on highsec PvP. The #3, #4, and #5 spots all go to alliances that spend most of their time in lowsec. Nullsec alliances rank lower.

What conclusion should we--must we--draw from this chart? First, the hypothesis that the CODE always wins is confirmed (again). Second, elite PvP is concentrated most of all in highsec, then lowsec. Carebears often say to gankers, "If you want PvP, go to nullsec and leave us miners alone." We have scientifically proven that it is the carebears who should leave highsec, which is an arena of elite PvP. Miner, calm down and go to nullsec if you don't like PvP.

96 comments:

  1. As a hilarious little aside, Gevlon actually declared Burn Uedama a success... mainly because he thought he was insulting Goons by doing so.

    http://greedygoblin.blogspot.com/2015/06/burn-uedama-was-success.html

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  2. Will Always mine in Panorad Always.

    Regards RS

    FSOP

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    Replies
    1. Will always gank in Panorad Always

      Regards AL

      Code.

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  3. Boy oh boy; I see some carebear heads assploding over this...

    The Code always wins!!! Always!!

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  4. "If you want PvP, go to nullsec and leave us miners alone." We have scientifically proven that it is the carebears who should leave highsec, which is an arena of elite PvP. Miner, calm down and go to nullsec if you don't like PvP."

    LOOOL

    imgur.com/FaMR1EH

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    Replies
    1. It still boggles my mind that miners refuse to leave high sec for their mining needs, despite the a) danger, b) crap rocks and c) generally bad advice from poor quality CEO's and Directors.

      In the age of Brave - erm.. In the age of Karma Fleet and the other new player friendly alliances that offers free skill books, ships and tastes of what all of Eve Online has to offer they remain blind, deaf and ultimately dumb.

      Doing the same thing over the exact same way and failing each and every time is a sign of madness. If it worked then great, but come on guys move on out Null wants you, they need you and in less than a month you could end up back in High Sec flying With Code, or at least near them sharing ganks of people that didn't get this message.

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  5. This is actually NOT boring.

    Very interesting in fact. Gevlon would be proud. You can compare all sorts of stuff with this chart:

    The best pvpr's in null vs. the ratters and miners of null.

    and

    Brave vs. Black Legion.

    Great work! I still hate you guys but great work non-the-less! o7

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. you shouldn't hate anyone over a video game....

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    2. @ 8:34

      Hate is such a strong word. I'm going to have to ask you to calm down, miner.

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    3. Well obviously, I'm just roleplaying. 'I' don't hate any of you guys. My character does. How awful eve would be with no bad guys running around to try to stop?

      IRL I love you guys. I express that love by trying to ECM you to death.

      Delete
  6. Did James 315, the desk jockey of ganking, (let's be honest he is just management now, doesn't really contribute to the real work of the Code), compare himself to Rooks and Kings? Bahahahaha,

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    Replies
    1. Killboards speak for themselves hun...

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    2. Miners don't believe in silly things like 'numbers' and 'facts'.

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    3. this is great, we get carebear tears and wannabe elite pvp tears. some is just upset their kb doesn't look so good

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    4. RnK have been semi-retired since autumn 2014 or so, they pvp like once a week. And Goons are on H1Z1 for summer. Still good numbers for code. tho

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    5. Desk jockey??? Heresy! James 315 is in every one of our pods, guiding our hearts and minds in every moment. How do you think we are capable of working miracles in every PvP encounter we conduct?

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  7. as this months premier fake veers i'll point out it's criminal to shot people in highsec and you all should go to real life jail.

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    Replies
    1. I know he said fake veers, but this one might be the real butthurt veers :)

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  8. Looks like Anti-ganking is effective as always XD XD LOL

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    Replies
    1. Failing 24 -7?

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    2. As long as there are idiots like this (and this actually came up as the result of a very simple search):
      https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=432480&find=unread

      we know that we're doing the right thing. These people do not belong in hi-sec.

      Delete
  9. Our Supreme Protector is not only charismatic, He is facile with the numbers! Brains as well as brawn!

    Praise James!

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    Replies
    1. Revis stop. No more than one comment per post please.

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    2. Anonymous, please calm down. You make more comments than anyone.

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  10. What you do is not PvP. Sure, you use the mechanics to their limit but really you just pick on people for your own sadistic enjoyment.

    Burning dice, uh, I mean, die in a fire

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    Replies
    1. PvP = player vs. player. So why is it not PvP? Or do you say that one side (the carebear) is so far from being a human being (because he is slowly becoming a bot) that he doesn't constitute a player anymore? (I am just teasing with this question, now to the logical part!)

      EVE is all about asymetrical warfare. As in any war, not only the armed forces are a valid target - but also the supply convoys, support personnel, military facilities producing arms and so on. As any skilled tactitian would tell you, the best enemy is one who cannot fight back. Now civilists may not be a target of deliberate violence. But in EVE the carebears don't have the roles of civilists, even if they might think so. Once you undock, once you mine minierals for the construction of ships or weapons, once you transport goods that might help someone in the conflicts all over New Eden, you take a part in the game and are a viable target.

      If you don't want to get shot at, don't undock! If you mine AFK and die, it's not unfair and it IS PvP! You wouldn't go AFK in counterstrike and then complain when you get killed. So why is EVE different? If you don't undertake any measures to protect your ship and let yourself be ganked or gatecamped, that's YOUR fault. If you don't fly a ship that can "shoot back" and get popped, fly a ship that can shoot back the next time. Or get some corpmates to protect you. Or play it safe and avoid gatecamps or ganks by using your scanner and your brain for once. Just because one side can't play the game properly doesn't mean it is not PvP!

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    2. that's a lot of words for someone who doesn't understand PvP at all

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    3. This comment has been removed by the author.

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    4. Time after time, no matter how detailed the evidence, Anonymous still fails to grasp the simple concept of PvP. Who is this "Anonymous" fellow anyhow, and why is he usually wrong and salty about it?

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    5. remember that Jesus didn't stay anon, he went forth and spread the word!

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  11. The Marmites are the real winners here. James 315 may claim to be the savior of High Sec. But Tora Bushido is the GOD OF WAR.

    He snaps his fingers and your High Sec corporation no longer exists an hour ago.

    The Marmites are like Japanese Wasps set loose among European honey bees.

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    Replies
    1. Lol at the marmiteanon tears!

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    2. I like to think off Marmite as our brothers (from another mothers) in arms. Both groups are fighting the cancer that is the highsec carebear and we are both doing an excellent job.

      We should all take a round of applause on what we have achieved last month and bathe in the tears of the fallen carebears.

      315 Victory laps all round!!!!!

      Delete
    3. Yeah, if you add the numbers for CODE and Marmite together it becomes a truly staggering amount of high-sec carebear slaughter. I salute you both!

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    4. I always liked Marmite and what they do in Highsec. They hit Highsec from another angle and do great at it!

      Delete
  12. What is the deal with goons being so far at the bottom of the list. I thought they were elite pvp'rs too?

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    Replies
    1. "It comes down to damage inflicted per alliance member. ... the alliances of the greatest size are at the bottom of the list, as they contain their PvE players under the same umbrella."

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    2. Scroll up, and read the article again. Your question is already answered.

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  13. There so far down the list because they are busy doing other things.

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    Replies
    1. YEP ALL THEIR ALTS ARE HERE OR RUNNING THE BRAVE NEWBIES.

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    2. INTO THE GROUND

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  14. My forum thread about Elite PvP was moved from General Discussion to CAOD by ISD Decoy. Classic ISD.

    https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=433422

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    Replies
    1. This is why the subreddit is the official-unofficial forum for Eve. I've never seen such terrible moderation as exists on the CCP forums. It's atrocious.

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  15. hmm, if you are so much more elite than null sec alliances like BL and PL you should probably come to null and kick their asses...

    ...but they would actually be capable of shooting back so you guys wouldn't be allowed to undock anyways.

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    Replies
    1. Said the Anonymous carebear as he clicked F1 on another asteroid...

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  16. Said the Anonymous carebear as he clicked F1 on another asteroid...

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    Replies
    1. Inb4 anonbear whines about dbl post

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    2. WELL LOOK AT THIS! LOOKS LIKE WE HAVE A DOUBLE POST LOSER, RIGHT FELLAS?!
      HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!

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    3. Well nitetime is a code bear, so loser does fit him pretty good.

      Delete
  17. its not pvp when people don't fight back, you're simply the best at ganking now take your number and hide behind an asteroid

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    Replies
    1. Miner, we really are going to have to ask you to take a second and please calm down.

      Delete
  18. Unfortunately, these numbers are much more a sign of bot-aspirancy than anything to be proud of. Total ISK destroyed also means nothing in hi-sec as each destroyed freighter quickly adds billions to that total.

    Killing freighters also does not count as PVP - it is a bot-aspirant behavior where a bunch of F1-puppies get fleet-warped to target and all they have to do is press a button. Rinse and repeat.

    Killing miners on the other hand is PVP especially when done solo or in small groups as it requires actual PVP game-play such as scouting for targets, calculating required damage, selecting the right ships, approaching target without scaring it away, etc.

    Killing hi-sec mission runners - even more elite PVP as you're now dealing with stuff that could actually shoot back. Any there are just so many of these who have not yet seen the path to salvation.

    What happened with James 315's great vision of making hi-sec a better place?

    How does his vision of getting rid of all bot-aspirant behavior fit in with an army of F1 puppies who do the exact same thing over and over again every day in the same small number of solar systems?

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    Replies
    1. This is a well put truth, but I'm sure the irony isn't lost on on CODE. - all ideologies are built on hypocrisy

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    2. Not to mention some degree of cerebral anal inversion, in the case of the new order they are approaching 100% inversion...

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    3. @Anon8:36

      How does killing freighters not classify as "PvP?"

      Depending on how a target is identified, damage must be calculated, the correct ships must be selected for the number of pilots in fleet, the target must be bumped (which you think is easy but it's not), and finally the loot pickup must be coordinated with a CODE.-friendly freighter.

      I can see how a bot-aspirant thinks that freighter ganking is "simply warping to a target and pressing F1."

      This is why carebears can't gank freighters, but CODE. can. We have methods you can't even understand, even when we tell them to you.

      And the reason you can't understand? Your way of life is inferior, outdated, ineffective, and subordinate. You should join the New Order, and learn how to "take a step up" from the mediocrity that is your current playstyle, before we do it for you.

      Delete
    4. There goes an example of the cerebral anal inversion, thank you for the fine example ming...

      Delete
    5. @Anon11:48
      Your opinion doesn't count. You have to be a "person" in order to qualify to have an opinion. And as we all know, Anons aren't people.

      Delete
    6. Anon 8:36, it sounds like you might be jealous that you didn't get involved into our freighter fleets. Not every one can take part in the elite PVP. Would it make you feel better if you bought a mining permit?

      Delete
    7. @Nitetime Video: There is absolutely no logical reason for the assumption that someone who disagrees with a part of what CODE. does is automatically a carebear. No, I will absolutely not get a mining permit. Why should I when I can't enter hi-sec anyways due to my -10.0 sec status?

      @Ming Tso: CODE. is not the only group who's capable of ganking freighters. Sure carebears can't do that - they're carebears - but other pirate groups can, it's not really that difficult.

      What makes ganking freighters not qualify as PVP is that you will have a few people who actually do PVP - that's the FC, the scouts and the bumpers - the rest of the fleet are just F1-bots, basically. And you will typically have more of these F1-bots in fleet than actual PVP roles.

      And even several of these support roles can be delegated down to unskilled players as long as you have a very competent FC. For instance, the scouts do not have to make decisions - they simply rely intel to the FC - these roles can even be filled with the FC's own alts.

      Bumping, that's one of the really tricky things that require some elite PVP techniques, sure. But that's still just a handful of pilots in fleet - all the rest who's sitting in catalysts and other ganking ships, they're just bots. They get fleet-warped by the FC on top of the target and all they have to do is lock it up and fire.

      Don't get my wrong - I have absolutely nothing against CODE. ganking freighters, you guys can do that as long and as often as you want - just don't call it elite PVP because it's not.

      If you want to do "real PVP" - then how about actually enforcing permits for mission runners? That'd be something where everybody in fleet is actually doing PVP.

      Delete
  19. Wow, that was an even better example, ming, this example even had a touch of arrogance thrown in, bravo...

    ReplyDelete
  20. That's assuming that highsec ganking is PvP to begin with. I'd say it's more like PvE against Concord.

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    Replies
    1. @Anon2:56
      You would be straight-up wrong in your assessment.

      "PvE" is defined as "Making money while actively avoiding PvP." Nobody shoots Concord, and nobody makes money off of Concord. Therefore, your definition is wrong.

      High-sec ganking is most certainly PvP because it is combat that takes place from one Player to another Player, with consequences that result from the losing party. The ganker loses only ammo, (btw ships are ammo) and the miner loses whatever precious thing they thought they had.

      This is PvP in its purest form. "Fighting back" could happen, if the carebears were wholesome enough to actually try to do it, instead of complaining for others to just "fix" the problem for them, like entitled trust fund children.

      But instead, the miner never learns, never wins, and never gets what it wants. All because of us, and our holy mission to keep the miner in its place, so that it may see that PvP is the only way that one may become successful in New Order Space.

      Praise James.

      Delete
    2. No, ming, you are wrong engaging in PVE is to consume the content that CCP has provided for us...

      Delete
    3. @Anon3:19
      Maybe you don't understand the nature of the EVE Sandbox.

      Let me explain it to you in words that even a five-year old could understand.

      The only reason that PvE content exists in the game at all is to provide content for PvP players. That's it. PvP players are the most important entities in this game, and if you aren't one, then you exist only as content to be farmed.

      To analogize it;
      PvE content is grass. Miners are cattle. The New Order are the farmers.

      Your only job, as a PvE player, is to mine the resources in New Eden, and then give those resources to us. You are only allowed to keep what we don't want. and if we want something from you, you aren't going to stop us from taking it.

      And the reason why this is? We are of a higher quality, intellect, and understanding than you. In other words, we are just "better."

      Delete
    4. Wrong again, ming, the new order are anal sphincters...Ac sept it and things will be right with the world, refuse to accept it and you will be miserable...

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    5. Freud would have a field day with Anon's anal fixation. Some miners are just stuck at that early development stage.

      Delete
    6. @Anon4:04
      How humorous that you choose to throw insults, resulting from the misery that is your current existence! What's more, you flaggelating those insults at an Agent of the New Order is also laughable, since I am the only one who is correctly telling you the only way to find happiness in EVE, which you, I suppose, are deservedly diametrically opposed to.

      What's more funny, is that you are forced to act as if you were currently experiencing happiness, while, of course, betraying that you are generally obtuse, short-sighted, and common.

      Here's a tip. Happy people don't call other people "anal sphincters." That's only what unhappy people do. You don't see any of the Agents of the New Order doing that. You should take a few tips from us.

      Delete
    7. I find it so funny that ming talks about being part of the PvP crowd, yet never undocks or even participates in any of this PvP.
      The reason why this is? Ming is of lower quality, intellect, and understanding then the normal player. In other words, ming is just "worse".

      Delete
    8. @Anon4:28
      Look at this Anon copying my post and just changing a few words. I suppose that it isn't clever enough to come up with any sort of original content due to any sort of creativity or individuality being sacrificed in the name of "more mining efficiency."

      It is people like this miner that give the New Order its purpose, and indeed, its driving purpose: To purge all players like this one from the game, or reform them into something other than what they are.

      Delete
    9. You would have to undock to try and 'purge' me from the game ming, to bad your to scared to do so.

      Delete
    10. You can look at my killboard, and then take a look at yours.
      I guarantee I have more on it than you do, since asteroids and NPCs generate no killmails, miner.

      Delete
    11. Strange, mine does show kills over the past week, past month, and past year.
      *checks mings killboard*....woah?...what have you not been doing in the past year ming? Oh yea, undocking.

      Delete
    12. Even if i where to 'prove it' you still would not undock ming.
      Totally understand thou, high sec, full of ships with guns *gasp* scary stuff there for wittle ming.
      Its ok thou ming, i unlike you am undocked and playing the game. Let us all know when you (as kaely would put it), "Grow a pair".

      Delete
    13. As I said. You are a miner. And my proven killboard beats your lack of one, coward. You would not stand a chance against my elite PvP prowess. Get owned, baby.

      Delete
    14. @ ming
      How about instead of arguing with an anon that you honestly know nothing about, why don't you 'prove it' by logging in, undocking, and getting a few kills on your killboard. Lets be honest ming, your PvP prowess sucks. Last time you where even in a ship you got podded. As for your 'proven killboard', all it shows is your to coward to undock. No wonder your the laughing stock of code .

      Delete
    15. @Anon6:30
      Oh! Well, then. I guess I wouldn't be arguing with an Anon that I didn't know anything about if that Anon weren't so terrified of the New Order's divine justice to reveal its real name so that its claims could be verified. As it sits now, the Anon in question is nothing more than a quivering lemure, unworthy of consideration.

      Sort of similar to you. Another random Anon with no killboard who is too terrified of the wrath of the New Order's Agents to post with a name.

      I don't take requests from mere objects.

      Delete
    16. @ Ming
      I will have to ask you to calm down!
      I understand that EvE is hard for you to understand, and as a result, quite a scary place for you, but please calm down.
      On a side note: Would you like a mining permit?

      Delete
    17. @Anon7:22
      Looks like the terrified Anon hasn't done its homework, as it would see that a valid New Order Permit is already, proudly displayed in my bio. It's already good for one year. And as you know, I only need one.

      Now, let's ask the real question. Would you like to buy a mining permit?

      Delete
    18. Ming calls anon terrified.
      Ming to scared to undock.
      #minglogic

      Delete
    19. @ ming
      Calm down miner, calm down!
      We all know your not right in the head, but raging at the keyboard can not be healthy.

      Delete
    20. @Anon7:31
      Ming uses his real name. Anon doesn't.

      Another victory for the New Order!

      Delete
    21. @ Ming
      Calm down! Please miner, calm down!
      Talking in the third person is a sure sign of an unstable person.
      I suggest going to see a mental health specialist, before its to late.
      Also as code agents often point out, there is plenty of mining permits still for sale. You might want to invest in one since you admited to mining.

      Delete
    22. Lol ming knows how to really milk the tears from these butthurt carebears. Good job!

      Delete
    23. Its hard for him to milk tears with all the crying he is doing.

      Delete
    24. Treasure trove of ming tears today.
      As the other anon's say, Calm down ming!

      Delete
    25. @Ming Tso: about your comment
      "The only reason that PvE content exists in the game at all is to provide content for PvP players."

      You do not know much about PVP - and I mean real "elite PVP" - if you make comments like this. Have you ever experienced EVE outside of hi-sec? Because what you describe is simply the view of a high-sec resident.

      You're basically saying that PVP'ers need content to be provided to them in form of PVE players, which is just bullshit.

      Delete
    26. Original Anonymous here. Ming's reply just goes to show that if you get to define concepts how you want, you can "prove" just about anything.

      I'd say ganking is PvE since the only contest involved is against Concord, you're competing against them in a race of whether you can kill your target or they kill you first.

      The whole fixation on miner ganking being PvP suggests something about those doing it. Namely, that they feel an implication that if it weren't PvP, that would imply the inferiority of them. It's a way for the "grr pubbies" crowd to imagine themselves superior though they're highsec dwellers through and through themselves.

      Delete
    27. @Anon10:51
      You are correct. If you get to define the concepts how you want, you can prove just about anything.

      This is why James 315 acted as the definitive source of definition for all of us when He Wrote the Code and then passed that authority to His Loyal Agents, since James 315 is not a God, as some would believe, but a Man, albeit He is a Man With A Mission, and A Good, and Holy Mission at that.

      I shall now prove to all that your position that ganking is PvE is incorrect. When the Holy Might of the Code engages with an evil bot-aspirant carebear, that carebear is, indeed, a player. This makes it "Player Versus Player Combat," or "PvP." Your other arguments are simply drivel and are not worthy of addressing.

      The Prosecution rests.

      Delete
    28. Wow, day after and ming is still crying....
      In b4 ming starts crying about how he is a 'real' agent because he 'claims' he donated isk.

      Delete
    29. @Anon4:05
      Yes, I did donate isk. 11 billion isk, to be quite frank. I know it sucks that you have never had that much money, but as Taylor Swift says, "The Haters are going to hate, hate, hate hate, but the New Order just wins, wins, wins, wins, wins."

      Delete

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