Thursday, September 26, 2013

CCP Audits SOMER Blink, Gives Them Free Stuff, Praises Their Level of 'Trust' and 'Virtue'

Hey, are you ready for another big CCP controversy? I know, I know, we just had one. I'll give you a few minutes to compose yourself. In the meantime, gaze upon this portrait of me, and draw strength from it:

Better? Good. From this point forward, I am assuming all readers are ready to get mad at CCP again.

Earlier this month, I wrote about the ToS changes, which outlaw some forms of scamming. After further investigation, I learned that the new rules were much worse than I originally thought, so I followed up with an article for As I explained in both posts, one of the biggest problems with the new anti-scamming rules is that they could require CCP to get into the auditing business. CCP would need to investigate in-game enterprises to determine whether they are, in fact, scams. Needless to say, this is a can of worms that CCP had good reason to avoid--which they did, until now.

The optimists among us believed that CCP couldn't really have meant what the GMs were saying, and that CCP would never actually take it upon themselves to audit spaceship IPOs and the like. The pessimists feared otherwise. Now the speculation, both optimistic and pessimistic, can end. CCP has announced that it already plunged into the auditing game, in the worst possible way.


Back in May, someone on EVE-O suggested that CCP could boost participation for EVE live events by offering rare ships as prizes. After all, incredibly valuable limited-issue ships are awarded as prizes to the winners of the Alliance Tournaments. But CCP Goliath, speaking only for himself, explained why he thought it would be a bad idea to expand that to live events:
"My personal take on it is this (note, this is not something we have discussed within the team): Events should be their own reward, but there are certain events that render a large impact on people and for these I do think there should be some kind of memento... Seriously, we won't be bringing back the old unique ships for events. We might give other stuff away that is interesting, but no Guardian Vexor, Opux Luxury Yacht, Fedthron, Impoc, SIR, etc, etc."
Goliath opposed bringing back ships like the Guardian Vexor, because their value comes from their rarity. There are only a few Guardian Vexors in the game. Some ships are even more rare: There are no Gold Magnates in the game. The Gold Magnate was awarded to the winner of a tournament years ago, and was destroyed. It's part of the history of the game.

Then CCP Navigator entered the picture. Navigator is EVE's "Community Manager". You might remember him from such classic debacles as the Mintchip fiasco, which took place earlier this year. If your memory still needs refreshing, enjoy this screencapture, taken before the CCP Mintchip threadnought (including the CCP Dev replies contained therein) was deleted:

Navigator apparently disagreed with Goliath, and announced that CCP would re-issue certain rare ships, including more Guardian Vexors. They would even bring back the extinct Gold Magnate. Is this a bad idea? Many people think so. In the wake of the controversy, CCP reversed course, saying that they would replace the Gold Magnate and Guardian Vexor prizes with new unique ships. If it ended there, however, it would merely have sparked a disagreement about how rare a rare spaceship should be. A ruckus, sure, but not a publicity nightmare. So CCP decided to take things one step further. CCP decided to give the ships to SOMER Blink.


You've probably heard of SOMER Blink, but just in case you haven't, I'll give you a quick explanation of who they are and what they do. SOMER Blink is a corporation that runs an in-game EVE lottery. Lots of lotteries, actually; they constantly run multiple micro-lotteries that finish within a few minutes each. EVE players give isk to SOMER in exchange for SOMER credit, which they can use to buy tickets in the lotteries. If they have a winning ticket, they can claim the prize. Regardless of who wins the prize, SOMER takes a sizable chunk of the money (its "rake"), which it keeps as profit.

According to its own statistics, SOMER has run over 5 million micro-lotteries, with over a quadrillion in total prizes. If true, SOMER has earned hundreds of trillions of isk, making them the wealthiest EVE organization of all time. They make the great nullsec power blocs look poor by comparison. And that's just assuming SOMER, unlike other in-game lotteries, never scammed. Even without any trickery, they can make massive piles of isk.

In addition to in-game riches, SOMER is also the most successful EVE RMT operation of all time. For the most part, RMT is against the rules, and anyone who gets caught selling isk for real money gets permabanned. The distinction between RMT and PLEX is that RMT cuts CCP out of the transaction. But SOMER created an indirect form of RMT that allows CCP to get its "cut". You can purchase game time (GTCs) from CCP, or from certain authorized retailers, such as SOMER's website allows players to click a referral link to buy GTCs from one of these retailers. The retailer then pays SOMER with real-world money. To encourage players to click its referral link, SOMER rewards them with SOMER credit.

Since players can redeem the credit for in-game isk, the the money-to-isk cycle is complete: SOMER gets money for the referral, and players get isk from SOMER--if they use their credits to win something. Meanwhile, CCP gets its piece of the action from the authorized retailer. No one knows just how much real money SOMER has made over the years through this process, but CCP is aware of the process and has approved it.

The reason for SOMER's success comes down to automation. Because players purchase SOMER credit, which is not an in-game item, all of the lotteries can be run through their website. The buying of tickets, the determination of who wins, and the distribution of winnings is all done automatically. It's a botter's dream; macro-miners and market bots don't know what they're missing. This setup would get SOMER banned for botting, except for one thing: When a player decides to cash out his out-of-game credits, someone in SOMER has to log into EVE and deliver the in-game isk manually. There's just enough player involvement to keep it legal.

Due to its success, SOMER Blink has always been the subject of controversy. Some say that they scam, using shill accounts that win the lotteries more frequently than they ought to. SOMER's defenders point to the fact that its business structure would enable it to make huge sums of money anyway, so why cheat?

No one outside of SOMER knows whether they cheat, or if they have used shill accounts in the past. SOMER's business model does rely on filling up all those millions of micro-lotteries around the clock, so there is some incentive to keep the lotteries active with shills. This would have been especially true in the early days, before SOMER became famous. Recall, for example, how Reddit's founders originally got their site rolling by using hundreds of fake profiles to submit and upvote content.

Actually, it's not true that only SOMER knows if they've cheated or not. CCP knows, too, or so they claim.


CCP Navigator posted an explanation for why CCP is giving SOMER the rare ships. (Again, the Gold Magnate and Guardian Vexors have been replaced with new rare ships.) His post is worth reading all the way through, but I'll give you the highlights, along with my commentary.

First of all, I want to clarify my assertion that CCP is "giving" these ships to SOMER. It's clear that CCP expects SOMER to award the ships as prizes in a lottery or series of lotteries. It's not clear how big a "rake" SOMER will get (which will amount to free isk given to SOMER by CCP), or whether SOMER gets direct custody of the ships before they're awarded. However, CCP Navigator admits that SOMER holds all the cards:
"Q6. So how can you be assured that SOMER Blink won't just make sure all of this goes to their alts?

A6. I can't. Once again we go back to the trust issue. Having worked with SOMER for some time now I asked myself, 'Could they game this so they gets the cool stuff?' Yep, they absolutely could. 'Can we prevent it?' No, we absolutely can't."
So, yes, by CCP's own admission, it's up to SOMER whether they want to keep these incredibly rare, valuable ships for themselves, and there's nothing CCP can do to stop them. For all you scammers and legitimate businessmen out there, wouldn't you like this kind of treatment from CCP?

Members of the CSM have confirmed that once again, not only were they not given a say in this decision, they weren't even notified of it. I thought the CSM was supposed to be part of the whole "community relations" department, but whatever. CSM member mynnna had this to say:
"For my part, I know the EULA forbids players from implying favor of CCP, I have trouble imagining that there isn't a similar rule forbidding CCP employees from showing favor towards certain players, and, well... handing an organization ships to give away in a for-profit lottery sounds a lot like favor to me."
The spawning of unique in-game items and arbitrarily handing them to one group instead of anyone else--that rings a few bells to those of us who played EVE back in 2007. This raises the question of why SOMER Blink was granted the privilege. That's where this whole thing gets worse. Can of worms, meet can opener.


If you were paying close attention to that quote from CCP Navigator, you may have had your curiosity piqued by Navigator's reference to "having worked with SOMER for some time". Let's see what else Navigator has to say about SOMER Blink, from the same post:
"SOMER Blink have a history of being trustworthy and honoring every blink played without exception."
Wait, what?

Your eyes do not deceive you. CCP Navigator has just announced that CCP is in the auditing business. There's no more room for discussion about whether SOMER is really a scam, or if they cheat sometimes, or if they've cheated in the past. No shill accounts, no "nudging" the random number generators. SOMER is pure as freshly-driven snow, and you've got that straight from CCP. Now that the old "is SOMER a scam?" controversy is over, does anyone want to play a few blinks?

Before we all give our money to SOMER Blink, let's take a moment to consider the results of Navigator's audit. Remember when I said that SOMER claims to have run over 5 million blinks? Yeah, Navigator went back and audited all five million, apparently, even back from their early days. Don't believe it? Read again what Navigator said: "SOMER Blink have a history of being trustworthy and honoring every blink played without exception." Every blink played without exception. That sure sounds like all five million plus, doesn't it?

Oh, you doubt whether Navigator could know this? Why else would he say that? Of course CCP knows. Who would know better than CCP? They know everything that goes on in EVE. Granted, the blinks are run through a third-party website. But CCP are computer geniuses, so you can trust them to know what they're talking about.

I wonder, which in-game businesses should CCP audit next? Perhaps you need to give permission to CCP before they'll audit you. Surely CCP wouldn't conduct an audit and post the results on EVE-O without your being aware of it.

Let's see what else Navigator has to say about SOMER Blink:
"SOMER Blink have a history of being trustworthy and honoring every blink played without exception. With that level of trust we were looking at ways of expanding on that good will and allowing players to play for some very unique prizes in that trusted environment."
Wait, what?

Why would CCP be interested in expanding on SOMER Blink's good will in the community? Why would they care about promoting SOMER, or helping SOMER in any way? Navigator doesn't say. But he does use the word "trust" a lot. Trust SOMER Blink. Trust them. Do it.
"Q4. So you said earlier that SOMER Blink are trusted. Does that mean CCP is promising they will always deliver?

A4. Not at all. What I am saying is that to date they have been 100% trustful and we expect that will continue."
Once more, how can Navigator, as a representative of CCP, tell us that SOMER Blink has been "100% trustful" to date, without first conducting an audit? The only way I can read his comment is that CCP's audited SOMER Blink's business from start to finish, and that SOMER passed the inspection with flying colors. Oh, but CCP wouldn't promise that SOMER will always deliver--only that SOMER has delivered 100% in the past and that "we expect that will continue".
"'Do I believe they would cheat to win it for themselves?' I genuinely do not believe they will. SOMER Blink have been one of the most philanthropic groups in EVE. It is safe to say that they can buy anything that is for sale and money is no object yet, despite that, everyone I have interacted with there is humble, gracious and honest. I honestly believe that this blast will be fun and fair for all who enter."
More love for SOMER. One thing pops out at me: "SOMER Blink have been one of the most philanthropic groups in EVE." Navigator has an interesting notion of what philanthropy is. SOMER runs a for-profit business. Not only is it the most profitable business in-game, it's also making money out-of-game. It's almost as if Navigator just wants us to really, really likes SOMER for some reason.

In Navigator's follow-up post, the one in which he reversed course on which ships were being given away, he continued:
"Q3. How do we know we can trust Fansites and third parties to operate fairly and independently?

A3. We have worked with a lot of third party sites in the past such as EVE Radio, BIG Lottery and SOMER Blink. These entities (and others of course) have demonstrated a solid history of trust and reliability. As a result, we can verify that they have been straight and true in their dealings and this should be encouraged... We would also like to address the role of SOMER Blink in this change. They have had three years of constantly delivering on every blink, blast and bonk they have organized."
So there you have it. CCP has audited three years of SOMER's business transactions, including "every blink, blast, and bonk" they ever ran. Oh, and apparently they've audited EVE Radio and BIG Lottery, too, and they're totally clean. Amazing how busy CCP has been.

Going back to Navigator's first post, let's find out how you, as someone who isn't part of EVE Radio, BIG Lottery, or SOMER Blink, can get some of CCP's love:
"Q7. So I am a Fansite, can I have a Vexor/Magnate to give away?

A7. Maybe in the future you can but for now we are testing the waters and looking at how players react... Will we always use SOMER Blink? No, we will want to share the love around. You, as a fansite owner and content provider, will need to display a level of trust and virtue way above the norm."
I know what you're thinking: Could CCP give free stuff to the New Order in a future "event"? MinerBumping isn't an official EVE fansite, but it's certainly a content provider. And who can doubt our level of "trust and virtue"? I'm confident that if CCP conducted an audit of the New Order's finances, they would find that our 126,000+ shares (which, like SOMER's credits, are not an in-game item) are handled with a level of trust, trustfulness, and trustworthiness that eclipses even the 5,000,000+ blinks, bonks, and blasts that they inspected for SOMER.

All you scammers and legitimate businessmen out there, take heed. If you want to succeed beyond your wildest dreams, make sure you get audited by CCP and have their official seal of approval planted on your business and/or scam. It's a brand new day in the world of EVE.


  1. There is a reason cans of worms remain closed, and quite frankly I agree with the snippet by mynna, this smells of favoritism.

    Is CCP intentionally trying to get in the way of EVE businesses or something? Maybe we should start quoting Thomas Paine and Andrew Jackson. That or some other famous person with pro-free business quotes we can adapt to EVE.

    ---Friendly Neighborhood Scoundrel

  2. Jesus, that was a depressing read. Normally the Savior of Highsec fills me with hope, but today it's just despair. This level of favoritism makes me sad.

    1. You whine like a carebear. CCP determines the laws of the universe. The universe demands philanthropy in New Eden to balance the scams and ganks.

      CCP wants cash for updates. Philanthropists aid CCP in turning PLEX into isk into scap metal encouraging the purchase of more PLEX. Philanthropists also increase the number of players by widely marketing EVE. If there was no philanthropy then everyone would know that someone is trying to scam them 100% of the time in which case the isk to be made through scams would decrease. For CCP it is about the Euros. They need to bail out their banks with something.

      If you don't like that - you could demand an audit of New Order.

    2. Anon does hit a good point in his mess of thinking. "If there was no philanthropy, then everyone would know that someone was trying to scam them 100% of the time."

      Personally, I think this whole thing is overblown. Somer has the infrastructure to hold a lottery of this size, has so much money that this freebie is just a drop in the bucket, and the reintroduction of an extinct ship adds interesting content back into the game. I like the idea.

  3. The New Order and I are also 100% trusted. Perhaps James should get some new rare New Order Catalysts for a giveaway for his most valued knights? I'll gladly accept some special Erotica 1 Isk Doubling ships for a future giveaway to some lucky bonus round winners.

    Right now though, I'm taking a break from the game while I evaluate the new rules on alts. Luckily, I was taking a break anyway while I launch a new business. I considered writing my own threadnaught on the topic because there are a number of unforeseen consequences to the new rules on alts.

    For instance, consider that it is now against the rules to ask for or provide names of alts by/to corporations. Next time you join a corp to investigate illegal mining activities, kindly inform them that it is now against the rules to request or provide an API for the full account, because in so doing, both parties could be subject to harsh penalties for revealing the names of alts or requesting those names.

    It is now apparently against the rules to have alts in an alliance's holding corp if at any point the relevant parties disclosed whose alt needed what permissions to be in said holding corp.

    1. The intelligent tortoise trusts the scorpion to be a suicide ganker ever time. Just because you can be trusted, does not mean you are trusted to do good.

    2. Your one of the biggest scammers in the game. Hell the last post in this blog about you was on how you scammed some poor sap out of everything he owned. Hell thats all this site is about doing. Reading back a few months 95% of the content on this site is either shooting shit that cant shoot back or scamming somebody with 3% on how you shoot somebody who can shoot back and 1 percent usefull eve information.

    3. The key point here is CCP is limiting players' freedom of speech in game, what we can or cannot say to each other, coming from an American player I find that rather insulting.

      On the side, you can put weapons on mining ships, they just aren't going to be good ones. The Bestower I've had since very early in my EVE career served briefly as a ratting ship. The sad part is I might not see it ever again, I don't know what's happened to my account. =(

    4. Americans have a sad understanding of their actual freedoms. This is typified by a nonsensical ill-informed romanticism of their bill of rights which permeates post mortem clinging to their 'cold dead hands'.

      First of all it is arrogant, but typically American of you to be insulted that an Icelandic corporation would abandon global principles of sensibility to adopt those of your country. As CCP says themselves: HTFU!

      Second, freedom of speech has always been constrained. Every time someone opens their mouth they are accountable in full for the words that come forth.

      Third, CCP is a corporation doing business in hundreds of jurisdictions around the world. It is subject to content licensing regimes and consumer protection codes which cannot be contracted out of in any EULA. CCP must control the meta-game lest regulators do it for them. If the OfCOM/VSC, ESRB, ACMA etc found out about the level of scamming and manner in which the meta-games played out they would arguably be justified in levelling a 18+ classification on the game. CCP does not want that to happen.

    5. I find it odd that you think OfCOM would regulate in-game scams in EVE...

      Anyway, you do raise an interesting point by mentioning CCP's desire to maintain EVE's PEGI 13+ rating. Maintaining a sub-18+ rating for your product and supporting a gambling site seem to be at odds. (Hey under-eighteens! Come play EVE! want some cool goodies? Use this gambling service!)

    6. @Anon 1:24

      Well, yeah, freedom of speech always has been constrained, I never said that you couldn't be held accountable. Hell, I consider myself accountable for everything I post here.

      No I did not expect them to adopt the principles of my country, I was expressing my opinion in terms of Erotica 1's post, you jump to conclusions too much.

      Consider this, how do you know if someone in your EVE corporation can truly be trusted, API numbers were the way to tell if someone was a spy from another corp, now CCP is blocking this and making it bannable, which was what I was trying to address.

      And uh, duh, CCP is a corporation, of course they are going for the options that will make them money.

      @Anon 4:03

      Good point.

    7. Trusted to SCAM someone, yes....

    8. Erotica 1 - the possibly douchiest person i EVE, after James 315. ;)

  4. So, what forms of protest are available in the EVE world, anyway? We've got voicing of grievances (threadnaughts), hunger strikes (mass unsubscribes), and rioting (burnin' Jita) down. Has a mass suicide (biomassing) ever been done?

  5. Swedish people are above reproach.

  6. Boo fuckin' hoo.

    Cry some more, New Order.

    1. Holy badposting, Bantam!

      It's almost like you think only CODEdot folks are up in arms about this.

      Copied from EVE-O:

      Andski wrote:

      "You know CCP, when you have Chribba, pirates, hisec bears, Goons, former BoB members, PL members, newbies, veterans, bittervets, collectors, and basically everyone in this game that isn't a complete troll or Blink fanboy telling you that you're doing something completely wrong to the point where you're repeating the same mistakes that caused the media storm that led to your creation of the very player council you failed to consult on this issue, you are seriously screwing up."

      HTH, /Sol Kalorr

    2. Oh I know, they're idiots. I just laugh whenever James whines about something.

  7. Oh CCP, you wacky, kooky Icelanders you.
    *scratches head and shrugs*

  8. You said "Even without any trickery, they can make massive piles of isk"
    That what hurts you.

  9. CCP will never promote this site, nor organization. They may discuss it openly, like how they've commented on Burn Jita, Hulkageddon, etc. These player 'events' make CCP look good, because after all Eve is still a sandbox mmo. Yet, despite that, CCP will never promote a site that leans toward the other end of the spectrum (piracy). CCP will, however, choose to promote, or sponsor sites/organizations that appear to be legit and appear to have no affiliation with anything that would count as a high-sec crime (emphasize ‘appear’).. ‘cause who’d trust a public representative who’s affiliated with pirates, or doesn’t believe that high-sec should be safer, or is vocal about their concerns of the game and analyses CCP’s decisions? I’m a pirate and I like Eve just as much, if not more, than the high-sec mission runner, or miner. In fact, that is one thing we share and have in common. Odds are we both enjoy Eve.

    This site and its owner are simply trying to prove a point; Eve is becoming too soft and in doing so CCP is losing sight of what they created. However, I believe CCP views this site as a nuisance, because it calls them out on the mistakes made. But, if CCP actually considered some of the advice on this site, or hell, from Eve-O, or the player-base, or CSM… wait never mind.

    We cannot forget that CCP is a business and money makes the world go round. I'm not against CCP having money, on the contrary, I want CCP to have as much money as possible; However, they should not lose sight of the awesome game they created in doing so. But, if CCP begins to show favoritism, I just don’t see that ending well for anyone.

  10. Somer Blink being credited with philanthropic endeavours in Eve is about as ironic as cigarette companies being applauded for promoting good health by paying for advertising at sporting venues.

    1. Good point, I never thought of it that way. We should allow cigarette companies advertise at sporting venues.

  11. who are you talking to? You sound angry.

  12. This stinks to the EVE gate and back again.

  13. And by the way this is a side from Scientology!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  14. I'm vitamin and I know it. (LMFAO music)


    1. The Code is vitamin.

    2. James 315 is vitamin for justice!

  15. i play blink daily. with the exception of how populated it gets during a celebration, and how hard it is to get a ticket during them, i generally have a good time. there are a ton of awesome people, players AND staff in the SOMER Lotteries channel that i hang out in. the general giving out of free stuff that somer does keeps people hooked day in, and day-in/ day-out til most people end up with an empty wallet. somer's wallet is assuredly bursting at the seams.
    just a few lines from the mirriam-webster dictionary pertaining to the second most contestable word that CCP used to describe SOMERBlink:
    "Philanthropy - the practice of giving money and time to help make life better for other people."
    --Not exactly what happens in a "pay to play" gambling site.--

    "1: goodwill to fellow members of the human race; especially : active effort to promote human welfare
    2a : an act or gift done or made for humanitarian purposes b : an organization distributing or supported by funds set aside for humanitarian purposes"
    --also, not even remotely close to a description of what happens on the SOMERBlink website. EVERYTHING somer does is ALL FOR PROFIT!. there is no promotion of human welfare, there are no humanitarian purposes.--
    "Voluntary, organized efforts intended for socially useful purposes"
    --With the key CCP has given SOMER to the "EVE Treasure Chest of new and wonderful rare and extinct ships", its hard not to cry foul when everyone who makes a honest attempt to make EVE a better place, no matter how they do it, cannot get the same opporitunity to profit from free stuff given to them by the game creators.--

    That smacks of favoritism no matter how you try and spin it.
    Im sure EVE-Uni would like it if CCP provided them with thousands of free ships to sell to noobs at whatever price they deemed appropriate.
    and no matter what your opinion is about minerbumping, ganking, or any other aspect of this site, you can be DAMN sure that CCP isnt going to give us in the New Order a stipend of catalysts for all the work we do removing bots, SOMETHING THAT ACTUALLY IS AGAINST THE EULA.
    If by "socially useful purposes" they mean "make Somerset Mahm and her corporation the uncontestably richest entity that Eve will ever see", then i guess thats whats going on.

    I want to reiterate that i am a loyal blink player, and i have much respect for the work that is put in in the public eye, and especially behind the scenes on SOMERBlink. I have won my share and i have profited greatly from the gambling i have done on their site.
    However, i do not agree with the constant funneling of prize ships and the like, through the somer game by ccp, when they cannot insure, or assure that any benefit to the 100 thousand member EvE playerbase will be rewarded or awarded subsequently.

    1. You've probably just marked your Somer account to lose more frequently to the fake accounts now lol

  16. What it actually smells of is jealousy. Like a kid seeing another kid with a bigger better toy.

    Blink is completely voluntary. They don't try to force you to do something, nor do they deny you playing something your own way.

    Unlike the New Order brats, they are not trying to claim something that they cannot have. And if they have tried, they aren't whining about it. Taking it like an honest business and profiting still.

  17. Bitches moaning about Somer Blink...
    Somer Blink counting ISK, instead of moaning about no one...

    1. The article succeeded as a persuasive essay, CCP changed the rules to crack down on Somer Blink. Posting 3 months later to make an incoherent insult, without acknowledging this you even play EVE, bro?

  18. And now after being crowd favorites Somer takes that loads of cash and probably loads of rare ships blames CCP for not letting him make real money off of eve and runs away. Way to go! Amazon Front End Web Tech is his job so I am sure he wasn't starving but still needed to make money off eve. Glad to see it gone

  19. Great post ! I am actually getting ready to across this information, is very helpful my friend. Also great blog here with all of the valuable information you have. Keep up the good work you are doing here free products by mail


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