Sunday, November 4, 2012

Why Miners Refuse to Pay, Part 2

Previously, on MinerBumping... In my effort to understand why some miners don't pay for a mining fee even though they know it's economically rational, I spoke with an honest miner. After being bumped out of the ice field, she opened up and explained why she couldn't bring herself to pay.


Ice Slicer was adamant that if she gave in and purchased a mining permit from the New Order, she would think less of herself as a person in real life.


Ice Slicer thought a lot of herself, especially in-game. As a ruthless, powerful EVE player, it would be humiliating to pay 10 million isk to a bumper.


Behold the all-powerful Ice Slicer, who can't be pushed around by anyone. I continued pushing her helpless Mackinaw into deep space as she spun her justifications.


IS had no problem with the fact that she could be blown up, but paying money was unacceptable. Unacceptable or no, her ice-mining ability remained totally under my control.


It was an interesting paradox. IS denied the value of isk, yet it held great power over her. Ironically, she would rather lose it completely by being ganked, rather than exchange it for something of value.


I couldn't help but feel that if she developed a "serious psychiatric condition", that would probably be an improvement.


Sitting in a paralyzed Mackinaw next to a highsec ice field, IS renewed her "I am an awesome PvP'er" fantasy.


Once again, I suggested her stubborn attitude showed more weakness than strength.


Next, she complained about bumping mechanics, because anything that can stop her from AFK mining is bad.


As an alt, "Ice Slicer" meant nothing and her failures did not affect her human operator. Unless Ice Slicer transferred isk. That was the one forbidden act that would tear open the veil.


The highsec ice miner concluded the conversation by denying that she was a highsec ice miner. In her heart, she knew she was a strong, invincible PvP'er--unless she voluntarily parted with 10 million isk, in which case she would become worthless in-game and out-of-game.

So there you have it, directly from the horse's mouth, the explanation for miners' non-compliance. In the Soviet Union, sometimes the regime's political opponents would be declared insane and imprisoned in mental institutions. While it might not be crazy to disagree with a communist government, I think it's reasonable to say our enemies' resistance is the byproduct of a psychological dysfunction.

There are many ways to cure mental illness. As my conversation with Ice Slicer demonstrated, reasoning with the miners isn't always enough. We must bump them back into good health! Each bump brings a rebel miner closer to a state of wellness.

42 comments:

  1. Ice Slicer: "I know what I am, and ice miner is not it".

    Puzzled observer "Then why are you named 'Ice Slicer'? "

    Ice Slicer: "It's part of my disguise, I'm disguised as an ice miner who thinks she's a PVP'er disguising themself as an ice miner. But really, under all those layers, I'm something else entirely".

    Puzzled observer: "And what is that?"

    Ice Slicer: "james315 !". Her face falls off in a slough of decaying organic matter, revealing the shining visage of james315's 458th alt beneath--looking exactly like the original james315 next to him.

    Horrified observer: "oh my god, the humanity. What are you, really?"

    In unison, both James315's : "We could tell you, but then we'd have to kill you. Let's just skip straight to killing you." Both remove their james315 face, revealing an unspeakable alien monstrosity beneath. The observer is quickly reduced to a pile of bones before the ravening hunger of both aliens, like an asteroid under the cruel lasers of an afk miner.

    Fin

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  2. Makes about as much sense as you lot.
    Death to the bumpers!

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    Replies
    1. Instead of whinging about "death to bumpers", do something about it. If you actually feel so strongly about what the New Order stands for, then put down your mining laser and fight back (in a non-ridiculous way).

      Fight back, and vindicate everything that the New Order stands for - that New Eden belongs to those who are willing to do something to stake their claim.

      Glory to the New Order!

      Delete
    2. James, a philosophical question: Obviously you welcome all (human-aspirant) ice miners into your bosom, but do you feel it is right to encourage these wayward bot-aspirants to mine somewhere else? Perhaps in the silent, soulless depths of belts not under your Supreme Protection, they will realise what they are doing to themselves. Especially those who are aware enough to try to argue against your (self-evident) position.

      In this specific example, surely choosing the code reaffirms your humanity? A bot could never follow the code, by design, and making a choice to limit your autonomy for the greater good is something all humans make every day they live in society.

      Delete
    3. I would encourage the bot-aspirants to follow the Code or risk bump.

      Delete
  3. I would suspect that one reason for not paying, is the feeling that by complying to your rules, the miners support and encourage more miner bumping in the future. If the mining isn't that big a part of her income, then she can afford to waste the bumpers time and not pay.

    While reading this post, I wasn't no longer surprised that James refused to take into account that this Ice Slicer could be an alt, and she may have a PvP character as well. Instead James chose the more entertaining way of making fun of her for not seeing the things his way.

    Well, I said it before and say it again, this (as some might say, life in general) is just a joke, so don't take it so seriously and make more of it than it is :D

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    Replies
    1. > While reading this post, I wasn't no longer surprised that James refused to take into account that this Ice Slicer could be an alt, and she may have a PvP character as well.

      No-one cares whether a miner is an alt, or has a PvP character.

      Delete
    2. If you pay, and support the New Order, then the fact that you are encouraging miner bumping is a good thing, making your entire line of argument moot. Either one supports the New Order, or one is in error and does not. This is sufficient to explain why a miner would pay, or not.

      Delete
    3. > No-one cares whether a miner is an alt, or has a PvP character.

      My point exactly. It takes effort to see the situation as a whole, rather than just from your own point of view.

      > Either one supports the New Order, or one is in error and does not.

      Many wish to have the freedom of choice, and to be "in error" if it suits them.

      Delete
    4. You mine? you need a permit. We don't care if you're Mittens or a CCP alt, you still need a permit.

      Delete
    5. You say miners need a permit. Miners say they don't want it. See what I mean?

      Delete
    6. "Many wish to have the freedom of choice, and to be "in error" if it suits them."

      They certainly have that freedom now :)

      "You say miners need a permit. Miners say they don't want it. See what I mean?"

      They aren't the first to have wants different from their needs, and they won't be the last.

      Delete
    7. Ah, I see. The New order is there because you know what they need better than the miners? Just in case, I didn't mean that in a sarcastic manner.

      You believe that your actions improve the quality of life for the miners?

      Delete
    8. The New Order is here to ensure peace and happiness and safe mining. It's to ensure HiSec's continuity.

      It's not a matter of us knowing whats better for the miner. That's already assumed and true, otherwise they wouldn't come into our HiSec and mine. The miners who accept and pay are protected, the bots who cannot... well, they are Xkm away from their precious ice.

      ~Murk Paradox

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    9. "Ah, I see. The New order is there because you know what they need better than the miners? Just in case, I didn't mean that in a sarcastic manner.

      You believe that your actions improve the quality of life for the miners?"

      Have you even read the Code?

      Delete
    10. > The New Order is here to ensure peace and happiness and safe mining.

      The only thing you protect the miners from, is you bumping. Your general commentary, especially that of James 315, would suggest that you actually encourage ganking. That and maybe boredom :)

      > Have you even read the Code?

      Yes, but perhaps I should have a look at it again.

      I'v noticed that New order is very diversified croup, with at least seemingly decent people in the order. Looks like there are a few relative upstanding members as well, unlike their figurehead James, they seem.. almost honorable.

      I will perform a small experiment on Halaima then next time I'm in the neighborhood, just to see what happens.

      Delete
    11. I don't encourage ganking, nor am I against it. I am however, a huge fan of chaos (not the typical Joker devil may care type) but the innovation of finding new things. I don't care for exploits, but I definitely like things that are within acceptable boundaries.

      The psychological aspect of people getting upset of not being left alone in a mmo is hilarious. Sure a gank leaves you without a ship, killing someone you just ransomed is retarded in my books. But mining? Seriously? Ore makes you more money, and is faster. Zero sympathy for ice miners. By definition it's just screaming afk`ness.

      ~Murk Paradox

      Delete
    12. Just so you know, the majority of the Order is not in Halaima at the moment. You should come to Tolle to conduct your experiment.

      Delete
    13. Didn't see your comment earlier. That is a great idea, I will. Thanks.

      Delete
  4. RL gov't say you need to pay taxes, not everybody wants to, you believe that RL gov'ts action improves the quality of life for everyone?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. You aren't a government. You're a bunch of con-artists.

      Delete
    2. The New Order most certainly is a government - and a damned fine one at that!

      James 315 was democratically elected by the people of Hisec, for the people of Hisec. His one motivation in playing EVE is to bring education, knowledge and fair treatment to the miners. He has built from nothing a force of Agents to protect the miners from themselves, and he tirelessly spends his own time trying to help them.

      He may not be the leader that the miners deserve, but he is certainly the leader that they need.

      Delete
    3. Yes, fair treatment indeed :D

      - New Order territory is a safe space for suicide gankers. Miners are required to put aside their prejudices and treat gankers with respect.

      And as for the election, must have been behind closed doors.

      Delete
    4. Except he...wasn't elected. There were no elections. Nothing sanctioned by CCP. You are all not a majority of high-sec players. Therefore your point it moot.

      You are not a government.
      Death to the Mafia "Order."
      o7

      Delete
    5. But there was an election, both fair and free. James 315, in his benevolence, acted as caretaker and proxy to the bot-aspirant ice-miners of highsec, who otherwise may have voted incorrectly. Now, under his glorious leadership, highsec ice miners everywhere have the opportunity to engage in emergent gameplay, and play EVE as what it was meant to be - a sandbox MMO, where players are permitted to freely interact with each other, instead of space-WoW.

      Is this not the pinnacle of freedom, and a most exemplary form of democratic government - an election by the people, for the people, benefiting the people?

      Glory to the New Order!

      Delete
    6. > Nothing sanctioned by CCP.

      Bitch, please. Don't you know anything about Eve? CCP isn't the one defining governments in Eve universe, it's the players. Please thing about this for a moment. That however, doesn't mean then the New order is a government. They are more like a group of people forcing emergent game play to a group of people who act like bots. They use a lot of fancy words, are very diverse and often contradict themselves.. well, very much like a typical government... hmm.

      > a sandbox MMO, where players are permitted to freely interact with each other, instead of space-WoW.

      Sandbox is a clearly defined wooden square where kids sit in a sand that smells like cat pee, playing with toys that they often can't bring inside afterwards. Yeah, sounds like Eve :)

      Delete
    7. Following my own train of thought.. since sovereignty is not allowed in hisec, this may be the ONLY form of government you can have there. Interesting.

      Delete
    8. Sovereignty cannot be claimed in lowsec, NPC null or wormholes either. Entities can still claim these areas as their own space though if they're willing to fight for it.

      Delete
  5. You are all disgusting. All you are is a bunch of thugs. You present the exact same arguments that were made famous by the mob and "protection" and are still used today. No rational person bargains with terrorists and criminals. That just perpetuates the problems created by their existence. All you accomplish by your actions is making people suffer and forcing everyone who doesn't mine the ice themselves to pay higher prices. I know that nothing I say here will stop you, at the very least stop pretending that you are morally justified in what you are doing.

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    Replies
    1. You are more than welcome to be at your keyboard and play the "bump and grind" dance with your really cool bigboy internet spaceship while orbiting around a hunk of ice if that helps you make you feel better about yourself.

      Otherwise, adhere to the Code and enjoy your stay in HiSec!

      ~Murk Paradox

      Delete
    2. Or don't listen to their "laws," and see it for nothing but a bunch of words on a poorly designed website.

      Miners. Go here: http://proveldtariat.wordpress.com/anti-bump-methods/

      They have a bunch of anti-bump ideas for you. It's worked for me far.

      Delete
    3. Matter of fact, the 'mob' generally just says 'I'm stronger than you, give me money', while the New Order *cares* about the miners that it is trying to save from insignificance and bot-aspiration.

      Delete
    4. Kainotomiu Ronuken we don't want your saving. Leave us alone!!

      Delete
    5. > Matter of fact, the 'mob' generally just says 'I'm stronger than you, give me money', while the New Order *cares* about the miners that it is trying to save from insignificance and bot-aspiration.

      That is funny, look at this example from "the code" page.

      > Since the miners want to mine ice, and since I alone decide whether or not they can, I command them. It's really that simple.

      Delete
    6. Counter bumping is player-aspirant not bot-aspirant. That in itself is a win. But its also like noone has a gun to your head and making you go into those systems anyways.

      Freedom at its finest! You too can choose NOT to go anywhere you like!

      ~Murk Paradox

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    7. “End the Highsecution. Destroy the Bumpgeois. Liberty of game, unity to defend it. Freedom of play, freedom of choice. For the Proveldtariat”

      So wait a second, if I choose to bump that isn’t covered by “freedom of play”? Or “Liberty of game”? I did like your site though and I am behind you 100% and I would like to see the miners of high sec work together (good luck though a lot of them are AFK)

      Delete
  6. For completeness I thought full chat might be better than James' selected tidbits ;)

    http://pastebin.com/hchw1yhS

    Regards
    IS

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. So basically, James was spot-on with his analysis?

      Delete
    2. Not only was James spot on, but he also cut out the unimportant bullshit from that chatlog.

      Delete
  7. I finally found it. The answer to what goes on in a miners mind when presented with a change to their behavior or challenged to improve their participation. Behold, as a picture speaks more than a thousand words:

    http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQ5BEfnFU-wg744JNRGOVUpCUF3rJ8zKKiqQ6294Fvj6bBx_YiZxFS_qWcjew

    ReplyDelete

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